Registered User
Posts: 1667
(4/4/04 5:27 pm) Reply
Is Dark Age of Camelot Dying?
It seems to me that a problem inherent to MMORPGs is that they evenually move away from being "beginner friendly". As the game evolves, it becomes increasingly complex.
Also, as the core players of a given server level up, there are less and less people for beginners to play with. In DAOC the problem is exacerbated by the fact that RvR is, for all intents and purposes, the "End Game". When no one was higher than 35--and only a few powergamers were even that high--it was kind of fun RvRing at level 20. Once more than 75% of the people RvRing were 50, it wasn't any fun to RvR unless you were around 45 or better.
Then there's gear. I remember when I was elated when I got a full set of Ghostly Light armor. After MP/SC'd gear became prevalent, it was suicidal to RvR with even the best drops. Now there are Realm Abilities and Master Levels, Artifacts and Legendary Weapons. It didn't used to take long to be able to "compete".
Now, it seems like you need to XP to 50 which, since normal XP groups are far and few between, takes forever if you don't get PL'd. You need to save/farm a ton of cash so you can have some nice gear made and get it SC'd and Alchemied. You have to BUY TOA (which, I believe, you can't use without SI) and spend weeks or months getting Master Levels and Artifacts. You have to obtain the ingredients for a Legendary Weapon. And after all that, you are ready to go spend a few more long months out in RvR getting your butt kicked until you accumulate a few Realm Ranks.
All of that looks daunting to a beginner. Who wants to have to spend six months just to get READY to play? So less and less beginners buy and play the game.
The core playerbase start to get bored, and new expansions do little to help. See, most of the players actually LIKE what the game has to offer for content, but there are numerous reworks, adjustments, and fixes that need to be made. These improvements don't seem to come, and people are instead presented with more content-based expansions. Worse, the new content is oriented around PvE.
Most of the OGs don't want to PvE. They WANT those epic battles that DAOC advertised at original launch. They want to have grand battles against players they either respect or dislike, and want those battles to be free from such techno-annoyances as lag and data loss.
It would be nice to see a new server. Perhaps even a server licenscing program. It would be great to have a server based upon the original content. No SI. No TOA. No BGs. A server with a balanced RA system (the new one is looking better than the old one). A server that is up to date for class and bug fixes and balancing, but is free of other annoyances such as increased PvE content and mandatory loot farming. It would be nice to see a server where those who like to play the game can just...well...play.
Okay, enough ranting for today. I'm sure most of you still enjoy the game very much. I'm just ranting about that stuff that bothered me. Forgive me for hatin'. I'm sitting home bored after being three under through six and getting rained off the golf course.
Llava Registered User
Posts: 458
(4/4/04 5:54 pm) Reply
Re: Is Dark Age of Camelot Dying?
You're far from the first to request a "Non-ToA" server.
I bet if some polls were taken, a "No ToA" server would far surpass a "Realm Invasion" server as the most heavily requested.
Orcmauler Registered User
Posts: 64
(4/4/04 9:06 pm) Reply
Re: Is Dark Age of Camelot Dying?
I have to say the only way I would ever think about coming back is if they either reversed la nerf (or gave sb's something to compensate) or let assasins get 1hit stay stealthed.
Oh and increased xp across the board 2-3x because I am never leveling a character to 50 again, they have the worst PvE setup i have seen in any game ive played so far.
Soooo as you can see, I am never coming back
Llava Registered User
Posts: 459
(4/4/04 9:43 pm) Reply
Re: Is Dark Age of Camelot Dying?
"let assasins get 1hit stay stealthed."
With the state of the game, this would help gank grays in DF and... that's about it.
Aeolion Registered User
Posts: 162
(4/4/04 10:24 pm) Reply
Re: Is Dark Age of Camelot Dying?
Actually, I can oneshot almost any sitting caster. Oneshot stay stealthed would be the pwn.
Llava Registered User
Posts: 460
(4/5/04 12:17 am) Reply
Re: Is Dark Age of Camelot Dying?
Under what circumstances?
Cause I need a good sized crit to one-shot a well equipped level 50 caster. And I have 44+15 critical strike.
Aeolion Registered User
Posts: 163
(4/5/04 1:28 am) Reply
Re: Is Dark Age of Camelot Dying?
50 axe 50 cs, and unless its well buffed, if a caster sits it dies.
EDIT: thats 50+13 to both
Resists dont do anything for them when my base hit is at least 1400 before resists then the cap kick in.
YES
The very last thing most of the RVR crowd wanted to do was to be forced to do ML's, farm artifacts and spend countless hours doing it all. Touted the PVE expansion it was anything but.
How long did we wait since the game came out to where crafters finally had a place in this game? Almost 2 years and with a simple expansion basically put them out of business in a sense. So you lost some of that paying customer base as well as alot of people who simply didn't want to have to EXP gear to have a fair chance to compete in RVR.
Even with the inception of SI and spellcrafting which went way to far. Thats the problem here in this game in that they do everything to the extreme. So with SC they killed the PVE farm for that ever elusive drop part of the game which we would do to maybe gain a slight advantage in some area of our class but not a dominant one.
There are a hell of alot more casual players in this game then power gamers so either the casual gamer is put in a position to spend time they dont really have to spend to compete or play at a disadvantage..
I have 4 level 50s and 3 of em who RVR regularly have one or two artifacts but i don't have the patience or desire to go farm for days, weeks to get them to 10 so i RVR anyways.
Am i at a disadvantage because of that yes? Should i be forced to buy TOA to compete in the PVP environment? NO... ML's would of been fine because most of them are group enhance ablities. Its the artifacts in general that are the problem.
I have seen tons of people leave because of TOA. Good job Mythic.
Re: YES
----------------
"It seems to me that a problem inherent to MMORPGs is that they evenually move away from being "beginner friendly""
----------------
I am too far away from the viewpoint of a DAoC newbie, however i do think you are right.
I have recently picked up the chance to play Lineage2 beta, and i find it refreshing to be a newbie hunting for that next level dagger(even if only slightly less crap than my current one ) and enjoy all the player company, be it good, or bad(read: red )
I seriously doubt any new player could find that sort of excitement in today's DAoC.
Orcmauler Registered User
Posts: 66
(4/5/04 6:19 am) Reply
Re: YES
Well one of the problems was the /level command (in my opinion)
When i disposed of my first 50's I took about a year off, then restarted. Sure I knew of good places to hunt but for the most part there was NO real low population anymore. Those that weren't level'd were being pleveled. At least for the most part I knew where and how to hunt, but I really feel sorry for someone who just picks up the box these days without knowing what they are getting into.
/level was just a stop-gap attempted fix for RvR population imbalances, and to me showed how terrible the PvE aspect of the game is (both issues still remain outstanding in my opinion).
ripre79 Registered User
Posts: 27
(4/5/04 6:23 am) Reply
Re: YES
Good discussion. Although not every gamer plays DAoC because they want to PvP. I look at DAoC as the jack-of-all-trades MMORPG. It has quality PvE and it has quality PvP.
I just got my Dad started with DAoC this past December. He now has a level 43 Mercenary and is having a lot of fun. He's always enjoyed games like Myst where it's all about exploring, and DAoC has a lot to offer in that department, while still providing the alternatives such as the battlegrounds (which he has also enjoyed).
The first thing I told him about this game is that it's huge, but not to feel like you have to do everything. It's just an alternative to sitting in front of a TV, an alternative type of entertainment but better in that you get to interact with it. I told him that there is no rush to get to level 50, it's not a race. While everyone wants to make their character more powerful, be it through loot, realm ranks, character level, etc - it really doesn't matter because once you max out one thing, there is *always* another place where your character could be better. Just enjoy it and do what you want along the way.
I'm not a hardcore player, but I'm more hardcore than some. That's going to be the case for everybody. There is *always* someone with more toys than you, in one way or another. This has to be what new players should understand if they want to enjoy DAoC.
I think that you are right about new players feeling very intimidated because of how complex and vast the world of DAoC is. But just like anything complex, you start the person off with small pieces. You don't tell a newby at level 1 that they need to start thinking about which artifacts they want, which ML route they should take, to buy playercrafted armor and hand them a spellcraft calculator. No way, you tell them what they need to know - what their appopriate concerns should be. Things like "what class do you want to be?" and then "do you want to specialize in slash weapons or thrust weapons?". Then you just fill in the blanks as they ask the questions like "what is a battleground?".
Just remember that new players don't know as much about the game as we do - and they really don't need to in order to enjoy it. They'll figure it out for themselves along the way - it's actually quite amazing to see how fast they consume the info
Ripre Dhampir - 50 Infiltrator
Orcmauler Registered User
Posts: 67
(4/6/04 6:09 am) Reply
Re: YES
Was going to add to your post ripre. What intimidates truly newbies even further is finally getting to the BG's then getting shredded by alts who HAVE sc'd armor and buffbots (yes I have seen them even in the bg0). Call it mudflation or whatever but DAOC is just not a newbie friendly game anymore.
ripre79 Registered User
Posts: 33
(4/6/04 6:58 am) Reply
reply
I dunno, my Dad never complained about that in the battlegrounds... I know it's there and that it's popular, but I suppose ignorance is bliss? Newbs don't know about these things...
Lakeb Registered User
Posts: 421
(4/6/04 8:10 am) Reply
/disagree
I would say that the game is more newb friendly now than before. If I have one complaint is that /level makes it tougher for the newbs to find people to play with.
However, the battlegrounds are a lot of fun. I have enjoyed all of them from time to time and if you want to escape TOA try it... no one has a ML or an artifact in bg0.
Finally, MLs are not that useful. There are a few that are pretty neat, but in general, you can do just fine without them.
Artis, on the other hand can be bought so that is what most do... buy scrolls. Spend an hour to get the challenge and then buy the arti. It is expensive but lots and lots of players have plat coming out of their orfices.
The best thing I can say about MLs is that it has made the control of ground more important. There is a sense of setting up a camp when you put down your PN or your font of power, or whatever. Before, the game was more attuned to being a nomad.
is daoc getting worse?
I duno, it may or may not.. but it's the closest thing I've found to my original <3, Ultima Online. If I want to PVE I can. If I want to RVR I can. They sure do a lot of stuff to piss customers off, much of it that doesn't make any sense. But I really haven't found anything as good as it yet. And so I stay.
Malignant Registered User
Posts: 3
(4/9/04 8:38 am) Reply
) and enjoy all the player company, be it good, or bad(read: red 
)
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