Registered User
Posts: 323
(3/26/04 7:54 am) Reply
New RAs : Archers (Scouts, Hunters and Rangers)
[Note: In order to foster communication and organization within our Safehouse community I am going to take the initiative to divide up some threads. In your class area discuss: "New class specific" issues, issues associated with the loss or generalization of your previous abilities and how the other realm's classes and stealthers may affect you - positively or negatively. Feel free to post in other's threads- no one is excluded from discussions.]
Just trying to help us all out,
Alk
Diirty Registered User
Posts: 20
(3/28/04 7:44 pm) Reply
Re: New RAs : Archers (Scouts, Hunters and Rangers)
I think new TS for archers is gonna be like see hidden was to us.We didnt even have camo at first and its range was huge and about every darn assassin got it. Assassins didnt cry when they got it and pwned us. Its revenge time and I for one will show no remorse in griefing assassins if it comes out like that. However i wish theyd just take see hidden, ts and stealth lore out of the game period would be best for all.
Creven RR7 Hunter Palo
Kydric Registered User
Posts: 183
(3/28/04 8:06 pm) Reply
Re: New RAs : Archers (Scouts, Hunters and Rangers)
^^^^
I totally agree. I think that SH and TS were BS abilities when they were released, and I think the same of them now. RAs should not negate entire speclines, especially passive RAs. And in the case of assassins, stealth detection abilities negates 2 spec lines.
re
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"Assassins didnt cry when they got it and pwned us. Its revenge time..."
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If there would be only archers and assassins in this game, then i would agree with you.
However you forgot the reason why assassins got see hidden in the firstplace. Archers were sniping people with no danger to themselves at all, and restealthed never to be seen again until the next batch of arrows arrived.
That made people - not assassins, *other* people - extremelly agitated. As a response, Mythic gave assassins see hidden, not as much so they could 'Pwn' you, as to create a countermeasure to the rampant sniping.
Remember that assassins did not ask for it, and in fact, assassins were the ONLY class that couldn't give a damn about sniping arches, as we were immune to it already. Mythic simply gave us a role we did not ask for, and your anger at *assassins* for that (as opposed to *Mythic*) is both childish and misplaced.
sentania Registered User
Posts: 118
(3/29/04 6:48 am) Reply
Re: re
The one thing that the new true sight does is let archers have a fighting chance against assasins; if they spend 34 rsp.
Archers NEED range to beat assasisns, even when they have it it's a tough fight.
Caowyth Registered User
Posts: 4373
(3/29/04 9:46 am) Reply
Re: re
Depends on how the archer is built.
Provided the assassin doesn't land PA, as it currently stands an archer can easily give an assassin a run for it's money.
Throw in IP, and the archer will win many fights.
That's without even using a bow.
sentania Registered User
Posts: 120
(3/29/04 11:28 am) Reply
Re: re
I just crunched some numbers:
Let's take an archer with TS 3, and assume he spots an assasin and opens fire at 950 range.
With vanish 1 the assasin will have a 51% chance of being teleported outside of TS range.
Vanish 2: 58%
Vanish 3: ~75%
Even if you were to land back inside TS range it gives you time to move out of range, move to engage, etc.
You also have to add in teh ability to evade shots.
Personally I think Vanish and TS are balanced against each other pretty well.
edit - sig once per thread please - LT Edited by: Llabak Tharr at: 3/30/04 10:55 am
*laugh*
Actually See Hidden came out after archers were nerfed to the point of uselessness back in February 2002 when i was leveling mine around lvl 30. It took us from being able to solo yellow pets effectively to the point of a blue con mob a lifes risk. This is from a Hunters perspective.
See Hidden came in and was all but the demise of any archer till *cammo* came out... With cammo we at least stood a chance to avoid assasins.
They have given my hunter little things back making him better but not god mode like prior 02/02... The problem is they scaled everybody up even Rangers and Scouts but did nothing for a Hunter in comparison.
With that being said this game is nowhere the same as it was when the nerf occurred. Casters have ABS effectively making them in a near leather or studded class armor. They didnt have a self absorb buff back then.
Most casters or still have a superior advantage over archers. A good caster will take any archer down 1 vs 1 in the blink of an eye. Again pointing at hunters who have shorter bow range and are in most cases in range of there nukes or CC spells. Things will change with sureshot but not by much. You cant be interupted but you can be QC- CC'd...
So much has been put in place to negate archer damage and increase non archer survival against us. Guess what maybe they realized we have hosed archers from there designed roles for so long its time to make a change.
Only in DAOC did Assasins not have a natural predator/tracker but they will. And thats the way it should be. I mean even if i can't kill them persay i should be able to track them. It just fills the role of the masters of the forest.
Again kinda ranting at what Sharee said about think about the other classes well i have and they have it much better then they did way back. So you say you have a critshot from stealth as i laugh thats negated by BT.. Engage ability or guard that makes my arrows useless against targets other then soft. Assasins that can see an arrow from stealth and step out of the way of it Bruce Lee style.
TS3 will be good for archers but its strength so far is way overated unless you consider a means for survival against the zerg of assasins in this game uncalled for.
I'm not wasting 30 points on TS 3 ill get TS2 for the 500 range detect and spend my other points more wisely so maybe i can avoid certain death now.
Think about it RR7 for TS3 and IP3? Not many RR7 archers around or people that stay around tolerating the continuous /release macro's they recieve on a daily basis
These RA's will benifit the RR5 players most and thats the way it should be and i believe Mythic finally realizes this. Fair RA's that make a difference with less of the overpowered bs.
Personal opinion- Get rid of TS, See Hidden and now Stealthlore. We have been asking for TS and SH to be removed for a long time now.
Re: *laugh*
>"Remember that assassins did not ask for it, and in fact, assassins were the ONLY class that couldn't give a damn about sniping arches, as we were immune to it already. Mythic simply gave us a role we did not ask for, and your anger at *assassins* for that (as opposed to *Mythic*) is both childish and misplaced."
100% agree
id rather they just scrap the whole see hidden/camo/detect hidden/trusight system. delete it all.
but fine, if archers want their "revenge", let them have it. they don't seem to be smart enough to figure out that their childish desire for revenge is going to get them screwed once the speed 5 ts3 groups come into full force. how much fun will that be for soloers? about as fun as a liquid plumber enema, i'd imagine.
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"How is that balanced? So assasins can continue to eat archers for breakfast, lunch and dinner?"
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First, assassins eating archers for breakfast was the price archers had to pay for having an attack method superior to that of the assassin against everyone but the assassins.
Second, assassins will not continue to eat archers for the simple reason there is no more see hidden in the new RA's, so whether TS and vanish are on the same timer or not, archers will rule supreme in the new frontiers beause of their untouchablility.
Which will only get them nerfed in the long run. Been there, done that.
zarlaan Registered User
Posts: 162
(3/30/04 3:38 am) Reply
Re: re
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"Assassins didnt cry when they got it and pwned us. Its revenge time..."
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I don't know about the rest of you but I did complain when assassins got see hidden. It took the fun out of the game that I had for tracking down archers. It also caused many of my in game friends to quit since they could no longer play their archer.
I feel that if archers are going to get passive TS which will further allow them to kill with impunity. Then should not be able to shoot their bow at a stealthed target, only melee. There must be a drawback to the ability to keep the balance in check. Otherwise an assassin will not be able to get in close enough to succesfully kill an archer.
Ayron Erebus
<Fate> Iseult
50 Shadowblade
Diirty Registered User
Posts: 21
(3/30/04 10:36 am) Reply
Re: New RAs : Archers (Scouts, Hunters and Rangers)
Sharee Ive played both, what im saying is archers got screwed with see hidden. If dont dont think so and thats your opinion. You havent played an Archer for 2 years of assassins being king of the stealth universe. Yes my anger is a little misplaced maybe. Mythic came out with it not the players. However I saw no support from the assassin community for archers when this came out. Assassins by and large all got it with a big smile on their face, time to go eat up some archers now. You all loved the wtfpwn an archer ability instead of saying no its not fair. Well guess what, shoe is gonna be oin the other foot now.
Registered User
Posts: 152
(3/30/04 10:47 am) Reply
Re: New RAs : Archers (Scouts, Hunters and Rangers)
I disagree, Dirty... There was a large voice of complaint from the assassin community against See Hidden, we were ignored and then the whole camo thing began. Sure, there were some that took the ability and coveted it, but not all.
Re: New RAs : Archers (Scouts, Hunters and Rangers)
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" You havent played an Archer for 2 years of assassins being king of the stealth universe."
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That is right. However not playing an archer did not stop me from noticing what archers were doing to my unstealthed realmmates:
Snipe, snipe, dead groupmember, restealth, gone. 3 minutes later, snipe, snipe - hey, i saw him! (sprints after archer) snipe - dead groupmember, archer hits speed, gone.
5 minutes later... you get the idea.
Sharee, go and kill him! You are the archer hunter!
...how? He's disappearing and reappearing at a different point at will! Frustrating! Not because i am getting killed(i am not the victim), but because i am totally helpless to protect my team!
And don't tell me that scenario wasn't true. It was true and common so much that it forced Mythic to create a countermeasure. And that countermeasure was see hidden.
I welcomed it. Not because it allowed me to hunt archers, but because it allowed SOMEONE to hunt archers and stop the aforementioned sceanrio of the archer killing without any danger to himself. If it would be an other class who got see hidden, i would have been just as content. I didnt ask for it, but it was neccessary.
Don't get me wrong, i didn't completely agree with the implementation - the range was too big, camo was a must right from the beginning, and the timer on it should have been 5-10 minutes, not 30. However in principle i do think something had to be done.
Edited by: ShareeFromTristan at: 3/30/04 11:04 am
Registered User
Posts: 62
(3/30/04 11:08 am) Reply
Re: New RAs : Archers (Scouts, Hunters and Rangers)
Creven,
Ya know, not EVERY Assassin is how you label them...
1 - I refused from day 1 to get See Hidden on B, and to this day do not have it.
2 - Hell, I even respec'd my Scout OUT of TS because once I started using it I was like damn....
As far as Assassins being "king of the stealth universe"? Umm, Detect Hidden ring a bell? Assassins were SUPPOSE to be the anti-Archer. This was one of the roles that Mythic intended for Assassins ffs, yet so many ppl cry due to that fact.
I personally love how much ppl hate Assassins. It fits into the roleplay of an Assassin. You aren't suppose to like me, you (as an archer) are suppose to fear me...this was the intent of the class IMO. No, the Assassin should not OWN everyone. Yet the main ones I hear bitching about them, are archers...which Assassins were INTENDED to counter.
/agree - TS, SL, and SH should never have been put in the game.
LOL
Sharee you point at 2 years ago when archers could do all you say but its nowhere near that now the game has changed. You cant snipe tanks or any class for that matter consistently unless you are a *Scout or Ranger* with the slowest bows which Hunters dont have access to.
Bringin by role the assasins is a master at *assasinating and getting away*... Actually assasins are not even allowed to play the role they were designed for.. You as an Inf as most melee specced Infs are light tanks in leather with Evade 7.. You don't even need to spec CS to destroy most SB's/Archers and can successfully take about any class. Your playing out of role but you do it well no questions there. By role they *assasins* are not the hound dogs, masters of the trail which would be a class responsible for hunting assasins or scouting in general *archer classes*
I do laugh when people say archers attack with impunity tho. You prepare to fire a critical shot. *You miss* You prepare to fire a normal shot. *name here* 75 yards away is attacking you and your shot is interupted. You are stunned, you are dead. Thats a typical situation for an archer.
Like i have said in many posts. Take my stealth away, give me chain armor and tracking and the ablity to kill as effectively as a caster can and we can call it even. But until they do implement some sort of tracking TS3 will be tracking. Mythic and there way of turning the viscous cycle has turned in favor for the archers and you ask why? And who this will affect most? Albion rogues in which this game is overflowing in the same way that it was with archers when they were godlike. In the same way pre 1.62 SZ were
Its sad that Mythic can't leave well enough alone and let each class perform its own role before giving every class the same thing every similar class has. As a side note i havent been nearsighted in months where did that go it takes away the bows of an archer. I'll tell you where it went sub 2 sec MOC lifetaps. Where are the Matter Cabby's that once ruled? /snicker
Assasins wont have alot of safe places to hide if TS3 goes live. Welcome to the life of my Archer.
Pheaarme 50 SB
Vistaakah 50 Hunter
Palomides
Llava Registered User
Posts: 444
(3/30/04 2:48 pm) Reply
Re: LOL
The game was broken in your favor before. Now it's broken in my favor. That's a good thing.
sentania Registered User
Posts: 124
(3/31/04 6:17 am) Reply
Re: ....
What if it was changed like this:
All rouges get Camo, camo negates TS. 10 minute RvR combat Timer.
TS works only while the Archer is steatlhed, with a 30 second ramp up. It stays active for 30 seconds after breaking stealth.
If you restealth during that 30 grace period, it begins ramping up again (to prevent, ramping it up once, unsteathing and resteathing within a 30s time period to keep it up)
edit - sig only once per thread please, as per our forum rules. Thanks -LT Edited by: Llabak Tharr at: 4/1/04 4:24 am
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