Policys
I think that you should post a sticky that lists everyone that has access to this forum..
I have been approached by several people that have a ton of negitive stuff to say about ueyen and even a couple that were considering leaving because they don't want to were the same tag..
That is how much negative influence this person seems to be having..
Do we have a policy, or a method to voice when members want to elelct someone to be removed..
Kinda like a the vote to get in..
Obviously it should be in guild section only..
Just wanting to toss a couple ideas out..
Wife faction getting bad, will come back and add more to this post..
-- Ask me!! I just might -- If I'm hungry at 4:30 in the morning, think god will deliver??
has something against frogs
Posts: 3765
(2/13/04 10:20 pm)
Re: Policys
The problem is it takes an enormous act of asshattery to be kicked - you have to KS or train someone, etc. Just being a low grade asshat isn't enough. Should it be? Maybe.
Benik Fury of Nature
Posts: 298
(2/14/04 11:34 am)
Re: Policys
When better then 40 percent of the guild wants you detagged isn't good enough to warrent a vote ?
-- Ask me!! I just might -- If I'm hungry at 4:30 in the morning, think god will deliver??
Re: Policys
Ben is trying to be diplomatic about it. The other day I was soooooo mad and upset at Uyene. Another one of his mean and nasty remarks to me over /acof. I am tired of being his target. Mind you after HH had a word with him, he has been nicer. But this has happened before. Uyene has pretty much ticked off alot of other GL's with ORQ and will probably be asked not to attend anything they do. But back to the other day..... I was so mad I was just about ready to go to Gracie and Un-tag him. But HH just had to be resonable and tell me no i couldnt do that just cause I was mad.
We are not going to get along with everybody all of the time. That is just to much to ask for. But when one person in the guild takes the fun out of this game repeadily for others, they need to be finding themselves a new home.
Re: Policies
I hint upon this in the previous thread.
I have no idea why Uyene insists on keeping an alt in DH if he/she feels that we treat him/her horribly.
If a member of the guild is creating problems, and half of the guild does not wish to be apart of a guild with said member, then in my eyes if the problem-creating member cannot change their tune after having a heart-to-heart, then they need to be either asked to leave the guild with dignity, or be voted out and deguilded in a diplomatic and just manner.
This is my view. If you read the Guild Charter, we specifically say we want to keep this a close warm family-atmospheric guild. If a member is being negative, and rude to guildmates on a regular basis in chat channels and in guild chat, then I see no reason why they should be apart of our family.
has something against frogs
Posts: 3770
(2/15/04 3:33 pm)
Re: Policies
lemme clarify, i have concerns questions about this idea's implementation and execuion, but i dont have any problem with kicking out assjacks per se. I can think offhand of at least one person who needs to be voted off the island.
Re: Policies
What are the concerns?
Any Ideas on implementation?
If its not Ueyen, and while this is an officer only forum who are you talking about ??
This would be a good forum to discuss how this person should be handled and create the policy / procedure behind the task..
-- Ask me!! I just might -- If I'm hungry at 4:30 in the morning, think god will deliver??
Re: Policys
Very interesting discussion. I know I'm not very active in Da Hui much lately but hopefully I can offer some perspective, particularly on Uyene.
Way way way back (i.e. back when I was actively playing and was still guildleader!) Uyene stepped on too many toes and there was lots of folks that wanted him to get the boot. I consulted in with the officers (I used to use an officers email list in the past to conduct these kinds of discussions (the secret squirrel corner is a great idea btw)). After consultations I basically told Uyene that he crossed the line and that people were concerned about his selfishness and rudeness. He actually took it very maturely and expressed a desire to shape up and try better. So I told him, and I'm pretty sure I even made a post in the guildhouse (either that, or an email to the officers) that I was going to give him a second chance. If he made another bad mistake I was going to de-guild him for good.
Following that discussion Uyene did improve his behavior, which was encouraging. Then time passed and he quit the guild for a while, leaving some alts in or something like that. And the "looming" threat of deguilding disappeared, which is understandable. So it sounds like he's fucking up again. I don't have much knowledge of what he's like now, but based on the history of my discussions with him, I think it would be reasonable to have a talk with him and let him go. Go ahead and even site some of the discussions I've had with him long ago if you'd like.
But this does bring up the bigger issue of how to handle members who are a little more "rough" around the edges. How far does one have to go to get a warning, or a de-guilding? And can we institute a policy for it? Or would we rather leave it up to an ad-hoc policy guided by the discretion of the guild leader/officers?
The danger of instituting a rigid policy is that we have had through the years many controversial members -- some were truly assholes, some were just misguided, and some really came around and I felt grew up in their time with Da Hui. It's hard to come up with a policy that'll get rid of true assholes without sacrificing the value Da Hui places on acceptance, tolerance, and giving members the chance to make up for mistakes.
The biggest danger I see in creating a formal "deguilding" policy is that once you create it, it'll get used. I know that sounds dumb but I think back to the many complaints I've heard about different members over the years. It seems that almost everyone has bitched about almost everyone else at one time or another. Traditionally we've dealt with these disputes over tells, occasionally in a message board blowup, and a lot of times people just hold it in. If we had a formal policy, I can imagine that a few of our officers themselves may have been offered up to the chopping block. Bok has stepped on tons of toes, Arnough had several high profile controversies, I even remember Ouze and Cikki having a huge fallout way back when. If those disputes ever resulted in some kind of deguilding vote, imagine the fallout! Of course, this fear might be unfounded. God knows I've often wished there was some easy way to just deguild a pain in the ass member without the fallout.
Finally, although my post has probably indicated the opposite, I think developing a deguilding procedure or policy would be useful. It would take some weight off the guildleader and help some tough decisions get made. However, someone has to step up to the plate and draft a policy up before there's ever any movement on this. God knows I had a hell of a time drafting up our damn recruitment policy (which was useful when it finally got done!).
Aloha,
Kapena
p.s.
Here's a snippet from a post that I ended up deleting. Its a list of a few possible elements a deguilding policy would need.
1. When does the policy get invoked -- probably have to be brought up by the guildleader or officer, or certain number of officers. Guildmembers who want to institute the procedure would talk to an officer to get their voice heard.
2. Who has a vote in the issue -- could be limited to only officers, or could be an entire guild vote. Knowing Da Hui's decentralized, "democratic" tendencies, a full guild vote might be appropriate? /shrug
3. A determination of possible outcomes and what percentage of voters need to support a "deguilding". Possible outcomes = a warning, probation of some sort, deguilding. Majority rules or a super-majority (60%) for a deguilding?
......after reading over these points, something simpler would probably be more agreeable eh? hehe
Edited by: Kapena at: 2/15/04 6:43 pm
Let me throw around a few ideas and I'll type something up within the next day. We can discuss it, and hopefully ezm gets a chance to poke his head in here to add to the conversation.
nanelien I have a potato gun
Posts: 192
(2/17/04 1:26 am)
Re: Policys
fuck it guys, ya'll are are sooo diplomatic. Let me be the deguilder, /e goes into ninja deguilder mode.
Parrotman Da Hui Guildleader
Posts: 1516
(2/17/04 2:41 am)
Re: Policys
I will speak with Uyene, and deguild his alts immediately.
The discussion about the "permanent deguilding policy" may be a useful one for future issues that arise. However, in this instance, I feel I am justified taking this action without a vote. I feel that way based upon Kapena's previous discussion with Uyene and his return to his inappropriate behavior.
I will attempt to speak with Uyene prior to deguilding him, but, that may not be possible. If Uyene logs on to find his alts deguilded and does not know why, please direct him to email me at rella@ccwebster.net or to seek me out online.
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