Geflin Registered User
Posts: 144
(3/25/04 12:09 pm) Reply
Realm Ability Chages from The Hearld
Be sure to check out the dodge nerf specifically designed to lower assassin effectivness.
/Cheers "here's to anal swelling"
Realm Ability Changes
The time has come for us to unveil our proposed game plan for the new Realm Ability System. We understand that this is very important to the Camelot community and we realize that we're making some very large changes here. We welcome feedback (please consider this part of New Frontiers when you send your Herald Feedback Form), and anticipate making changes based on your analysis and your beta testing. Please, read carefully - and understand that this is just a proposal, released several weeks early for you to examine and comment upon. It's not the final document.
Here's the chart: Proposed Realm Abilities System Chart.
As you can see, the new Realm Ability system is built on the foundation of the original RA system. Many RAs have been changed or removed (some not completely disappearing, but becoming automatically granted character abilities) and several new RAs have been added. Of course, with a redesign like this, we'll be refunding ALL of your realm ability points so that you can start in New Frontiers with a completely clean slate.
Read on! We'll explain the new design of some of the abilities here. This isn't by any means a full analysis of every change, but it should give you some idea of where the designers were coming from as they thought and planned.
Purge. The Purge realm ability is still part of the system, but entirely redesigned for better balance. Purge now has three levels, costing 5, 10, and 15 points respectively.
Purge I works as it did in the old RA system, with two exceptions: there is a five second delay between when Purge is selected and when it actually removes the negative effect. This means that Purge I will not be particularly useful versus combat effects such as stun, but will still be a useful defense against long mesmerize effects. Also, where the original purge was on a thirty minute timer, the new Level I Purge is on a fifteen minute timer.
The net result: Purge I costs five points, is usable every fifteen minutes, and has the drawback of the five second "wind up" time before going off.
Purge II is the same as Purge I with the five second delay removed. Basically, it works exactly as Purge does in the old system, with half the timer.
The net result: Purge II costs ten points, has a fifteen minute timer, no delay, and a prerequisite of Purge I.
Purge III is the same as Purge II, except the reuse timer is a short and sweet five minutes. Sounds amazing! Purge every five minutes? The designed "trade off" is that a character must essentially commit to having this ability and few others - thirty points is almost a third of all the realm ability points a character can ever earn.
The net result: Purge III costs fifteen points, has a five minute timer, no delay, and a prerequisite of Purge II.
Group Purge. This ability has been removed from the game. Personal Purge is now more accessible to more people in its lowest form (only five points for the first level), and more powerful to those who wish to commit the points (usable every five minutes for the third level). Leaving group purge in the game would be a little too much.
Stoicism. An example of a realm ability we've changed to an inherent character ability is Stoicism. The new Stoicism is given to all tanks and light tanks (defined as the Hero, Warrior, Armsman, Mercenary, Berserker, Blademaster, and Savage classes) as a baseline passive ability once they reach level 35. (Baseline here means those classes get it no matter how they are specialized.) Stoicism now gives these classes a flat 25% reduction in duration to all crowd control spells cast on them.
Determination. Like Purge, Determination still exists as a realm ability, but it has been redesigned. There are now five levels of Determination, costing 1, 3, 6, 10, and 14 points respectively. The percentage reduction in crowd control duration granted by Determination happens to match the cost of each level - 1, 3, 6, 10, or 14 percent. The percentages stack with one another for a cumulative total.
Thus, Determination IV will grant a 20% reduction in the duration of crowd control spells at a cost of 20 points (1+3+6+10).
Determination will stack with Stoicism, by the way. So a 35th or higher level tank/light tank who wants to spend 34 RA points (remember, that's more than a third of the realm ability points their character can ever possibly have) will receive a total bonus of 59% in crowd control reduction - 25% from Stoicism + 34% from Determination V.
Mastery of Concentration. Another old favorite that still exists in a new form is Mastery of Concentration. In the old system, MoC is available every thirty minutes and prevents interruptions for fifteen seconds. The old cost is 14 points in addition to the pre-requisite of Augment Acuity III (another ten RA points).
Now, Mastery of Concentration is available for use every ten minutes and lasts for thirty seconds. There is no pre-requisite purchase any more, so the total cost to the player is 5, 10, and 15 points for each of the three respective levels. Of course, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
MoC I, while allowing the caster 30 seconds of uninterruptible casting, now comes with the trade off that all spells cast during that time will be 25% as effective. For example, let's say you cast a nuke for what would normally be 400 points. With the new MoC I, you cannot be interrupted as you do 100 points of damage to your target, as many times as you can cast the spell in thirty seconds. The 25% number applies during other types of spells as well. If you mesmerize an enemy player for 60 seconds normally (but with the risk of interruption), then the mez will only last for 15 seconds if cast while MoC I is active.
MoC II costs an additional ten RA points, and allows the caster 50% of his normal effectiveness.
MoC III, which costs a total of 30 points (5 + 10 + 15), will allow a caster to cast with no interruptions for thirty seconds every ten minutes at 75% effectiveness.
Dodger. We are removing Dodger from the game. Here's an attempt to explain what will no doubt raise a number of questions.
The trouble with Dodger is that it works too well in some cases and not at all in others. For example, since evade is capped at 50%, an infiltrator who gets Dodger IV is wasting his points, since he's already capping at 50% in most situations. One exception - when that infiltrator is fighting a class with high weapon skill, like a hero or warrior. In this case, the infiltrator's chance to evade is modified downward by the tank's weapon skill. The problem there is that, instead of starting with 50% and moving down the infiltrator's *capped* evade chance, the weapon skill is applied to the infiltrators *modified* evade chance (in this case, like 85% or so) bringing it down by maybe 15 or 20%. (so now it's a 65% chance to evade) Unfortunately, this has absolutely no effect since the infiltrator is still capped at 50% evade. So this means that an infiltrator can evade a hero's spear as often as he evades a runemaster's staff (50%) if he has some points in dodger.
This works the same way even for classes with fewer levels of inherent evade, although to a much lesser degree.
If we find during the testing of New Frontiers that classes with fewer levels of evade are performing poorly (a performance problem disguised by Dodger), we will address as a class balance issue, not a Realm Ability issue.
That's it for now. Please keep in mind that these new Realm Abilities are still being implemented and balanced. The designs may change based on internal and beta testing feedback, and others may change as we find better or less complex ways of coding them into the game.
We really look forward to receiving community feedback on the new system. To prove it: In addition to the normal avenues, we've set up a special email address at RAreview@mythicentertainment.com where you may also send your feedback.
Keep an eye on this section as it evolves - we'll add to it to answer your questions.
Geflin Registered User
Posts: 145
(3/25/04 12:23 pm) Reply
Re: Realm Ability Chages from The Hearld
Yup, ladies and gents if this goes through as is... I'm done... I've had it with Mythic and their stupidity... this was supposed to create balance... ROFL... you gotta be kidding... WoW here I come...
Nightshades get the shaft again... and again... and once AGAIN!!!
Re: Realm Ability Chages from The Hearld
Biggest problems i see:
- 1000 range passive TS for archers. No see hidden for assassins. Makes one go hmm. This in addition of other archer abilities - i would dare to say archers got their effectiveness increased by 200% at least in the RA review.
- enchanter bombers now can wade in, and cast their PBAOE's at 75% effectiveness uninterrupted for 30 seconds. That's about 500 damage every second for 30 seconds to all targets in the area... you know the drill. Multiply by the number of chanters participating(as we all know how lacking in numbers they are...) Another hmmm....
Re: Realm Ability Chages from The Hearld
<claps> Mythic may finally have found a way to make me cancel......A ranged unit should NEVER have a better detection than us
ripre Registered User
Posts: 66
(3/25/04 2:48 pm) Reply
Re: Realm Ability Chages from The Hearld
all of you about to /cancel, you *do* realize this is just a proposal right? There's a very large difference between a "Proposal" and a "Specification" in the software industry...
Why do I have a feeling that you people were just looking for a reason to /cancel?
My opinion: this will make things very interesting :-) Props to the Shadowblades who have a sweet ability in the proposal - I hope you get it!
Caowyth Registered User
Posts: 4364
(3/25/04 3:06 pm) Reply
Re: Realm Ability Chages from The Hearld
Immunity to poison/dot's could be extremely useful. On the other hand, loss of AP for Nightshades, and dilution of Viper will hurt badly.
As it stands, Nightshades are the weakest of the three assassins, only coming into their own with the current RA's. The current proposal will only heighten the current balance problems.
Most people are frustrated, because Mythic has been turning a blind eye to any complaints from the assassin community. All of the recent tuning to the game from ToA has been to remove stealth classes as a factor from the game. No one here is confident that if they complain about this proposal, or even show data that will prove their points that it will even be looked at or heeded.
Llava Registered User
Posts: 432
(3/25/04 4:36 pm) Reply
Re: Realm Ability Chages from The Hearld
<looks around>
Hey...
hey!
Where did Wild Arcana go?
I have 2 characters that rely heavily on Wild Arcana!
Nightshade ability
How is this ability not good? U get to "instantly" cancel the affects of SB and INF Dots and ENERVATING! That is about at least 4-500 damage per fight on average. Not to mention, if the fight still isn't going your way...u just up and "vanish" (pun intended) LOL! If I am reading this ability wrong someone pls correct me, otherwise i think nightshades just got the leg up on the competition.
If this ability isn't instant, then yes it is very weak, but as with most other realm abilities, this should be able to be activated at any time during fight, which will give you the clear advantage in assassin vs. assassin battles.
Quoted from the new RA page:"Nightshade ingests poison that costs 10% life but grants poison/dot immunity for 60 seconds."
Sezar Registered User
Posts: 92
(3/26/04 5:00 am) Reply
pffffffffffffffff
Is it me, or did Light Tanks and Archers get the best love of all?
I cant easily find any RAs that will help my lill NS (started back there on the first day of DAoC).
Assasinate and Shadow Strike look very nice, imho. I like a bit more the SB ability, but those 2 look fine.
But Remedy..... what's up with this? So Nightshades will be relegated to only fight another assasins?? Without Wild Arcana/AP/Viper (the real one) ???
What if i want to play as an assasin, fighting other classes, archers and casters specially, the ones i should be counter in the open field? and even more on keep sieges!
SBs and Infils will have some cool tools to do their job on that (Shadow Strike looks great for PAing some caster in a keep tower and then jump out real fast) but NSs dont.
I dont want to be an anti assasin. I want to be able to help my realm on keep sieges (want i cant do right now cause of some MLs and artifacts, and what i will have even worse later with that new True Sight!)
Quote:True SightPassive Increases the range at which stealthed targets can be see by the listed amount Passive 250 500 1000 Archers
And what's that with every archer in the game finding us whenever they want??
And what's that with that new hunter tool they are testing in Pendragon right now??
Why dont they just remove every assasin class toon in the game? That would be faster and easier than all this @#%$.
Every archer will have new tools, a lot. Not just their RR5 RA, but a whole new set of toys to choose, as well as free Volley for all.
And what happens with light tanks?? they must be really happy with all that stuff:
Quote:Reflex AttackPassive Gives a chance to automatically counter-attack with an unstyled swing (or a swing from each hand in the case of duel weilding classes) anytime a hit is taken. Works against attacks from all 360 degreess with the chance based on the percentages listed. Passive 5% 15% 30% Friars, BMs, Mercs, Zerkers
Quote:Charge Active Grants unbreakable speed 3 for the listed duration. Use will still be able to move even if rooted, snared, mezzed, or stunned. 15 min 5 min 1 min Light Tanks
Quote:Stoicism Reduces the duration of all forms of crowd control by 25%. Stacks with Determination. passive Tanks & Light tanks at level 35
Quote:Prevent Flight With each hit there is a 10% chance of procing a 25% snare. Passive Light Tanks at level 24
Another thing i can´t understand:
Quote:Negative Maelstrom Active 6 tick AE DoT wiith a 350 radius. The damage starts at the listed amount and doubles with each tick. 1 second cast time. 600 20 40 60 List casters. (Not Vale walkers)
So, at lvl1, it would be like: 20/40/80/160/320/640 ???? a whole 1260dmg!
or maybe a softer dmg like: 20/40/60/80/100/120 = 420
at lvl2 it would be like: 40/80/160/320/640/1280.... no, cant be like this. It must be this:
lvl2 = 40/80/120/160/200/240 = 840dmg (not bad at all, remember it is AE 350radius)
Please take the time to test the hell outta all this before screaming and treathening to cancel. Changes of this scale will totally alter the current melee dynamics, let's see how it turn out before bashing Mythics.
Registered User
Posts: 143
(3/26/04 7:41 am) Reply
Re: re
I'd be a bit more happy with the Remedy ability, if they either removed the 10% damage (180 with 1800hp) or increased the duration, so you have a chance to regen that 180 back before fighting. As is, you have to hit it BEFORE an assassin attacks you. it's not like purge, well by the way it's worded.
Geflin Registered User
Posts: 146
(3/26/04 7:56 am) Reply
Re: re
Okay some people seem to be having a tough time grasping why the new Nightshade ability is alarmingly bad and why we have no faith in TESTING.
Quote:So little faith my friends...Please take the time to test the hell outta all this before screaming and treathening to cancel. Changes of this scale will totally alter the current melee dynamics, let's see how it turn out before bashing Mythics.- Grinless
Testing means nothing. I know a certain skill in the CS line that has seen tons of testing and to this day remains unchanged despite the vast about of data logs. The current imbalances in the game are a result of Mythic’s testing skills what makes you think this new batch of skills is going to be any different. These are the same people who brought you the 2.5 spec points to Infiltrators and called it fair and balanced. Hell ToA was tested and look how great it was. The best indicator of future performance is, you guessed it, past performance.
Quote:How is this ability not good? U get to "instantly" cancel the affects of SB and INF Dots and ENERVATING! That is about at least 4-500 damage per fight on average. Not to mention, if the fight still isn't going your way...u just up and "vanish" (pun intended) LOL! If I am reading this ability wrong someone pls correct me, otherwise i think nightshades just got the leg up on the competition.
Now Remedy why is it bad and why don’t people like it compared to the other skills?
One – Remedy is only useful against poison users which consists of the two other assassin classes. Shadow Strike and Assassinate do not have this limitation.
Two – Purge II has the same effect and anyone can take this now usable every 5 minutes so basically all the time. On a side note this makes the Envenom skill nearly useless as everyone will purge it and you’ll lose time and valuable attacks constantly switching weapons.
Three – Timing. When you use this skill most likely it’s after a fight has been initiated with another stealther, right? So what does that mean? It means you’ve already lost a tic on the dot and the enervating poison has already landed. The game mechanics, as I understand them, work like this: Enervating lands and the Nightshades con goes down. Then the Nightshade uses remedy and his con returns to normal but the hit points lost don’t automatically return. It’s like removing and item that gives you con and the putting it right back on basically the damage is done.
Four – Cost. The cost of the skills is 10% of your hit points the one thing a Nightshade can’t afford to lose. For me that’s 185 hit points lost plus how ever many tics of the dot I take before I get the skill off.
I’m not sure how people think this give an advantage to the Nightshade in a fight. I lose 185+ hit points and now have to fight an infiltrator who’s more powerful than I am with no AP to help me survive. Yeah sounds like a recipe for Nightshades winning to me.
Look at all the skills as a whole and you can see there are several classes getting the shaft. For example Bards special ability lets them change shape so people can’t tell they are a bard but Monstrels get a 1000 unit AoE instant mez; sounds like a fair trade right (sarcasm)? With so many classes complaining about this skills stealthers can expect to get the same level of planning and consideration we’ve received in the past, none.
Another problem is Monstrels with Alluring Melodies, how the hell do we compete with that? The problem is they are going to have to give the skill to minstrels for the sake of balance for the realm of Albion which means stealth balance is gone, done albs win. Even if they changed everything else this is the nail in the coffin for which there is no defense. Every 10 minutes a 30sec 400 a tic heal? Hell one Infl and minstrel will be able to kill 5 shades easy.
Geflin
Lakeb Registered User
Posts: 413
(3/26/04 10:32 am) Reply
Re: re
I still think Remedy is a better skill than assassinate. The only peeps an Inf will kill with that are those who are fresh off the short bus. Stealth lore anyone?
'Oh, there's an inf standing by the mile gate door not moving... I wonder why?'
'Well, maybe I will go over and ask him if he is waiting for someone to assassinate... or maybe I will just shout him from here.'
The reality is that the stealth war is over. Any stealther gets their PA off on me and I'm going to hit stealth lore, and then vanish II and you ain't going to find me.
I am really liking new vanish... I can also use it to go down into the floor of an enemy keep, kill one key person and then punch vanish and end up outside the keep every time... unless they make keeps more than 1000 units across. If keeps are more than 1000 units across, then they need to make the distance of the port on Vanish II far enough to ensure escape from a keep... which would be the main use for it outside of just bailing from a fight that is going poorly.
Attacking peeps in the floor of a keep would be the only way vanish would increase our effectiveness... If I can't kill prior to the vanish then it is just pointless. I'm not going to value an ability that I have to use every time because I'm always getting beat up and having to run before I'm dead.
From the day I rolled a Shade, I have envissioned the assassin as being able to kill ANYONE as long as he gets the drop on them. I should be able to kill a Pali as long as I can sneak up on him... but if I walk up brandishing my weapon, heavier tanks should just make a greasy spot out of me. Secrecy and the suprise attack is everything to the rogue style of play.
I see problems with the proposal, as do many of you, but in general, I feel this change is positive. I don't really want AP back, I want to wreak more havok.
Kilteer Registered User
Posts: 1
(3/26/04 6:07 pm) Reply
Re: re
Quote:'Oh, there's an inf standing by the mile gate door not moving... I wonder why?'
How would you see him? The descriptions says he's 80% MORE difficult to detect, doesn't it?
Registered User
Posts: 145
(3/29/04 6:13 am) Reply
Re: re
Quote:How would you see him? The descriptions says he's 80% MORE difficult to detect, doesn't it?
Don't forget there is a 150 range on the Ass. Perf too.
--------------- "She would find herself wandering down gloomy halls past faded tapestries, descending endless circular stairs, darting through courtyards or over bridges, her shouts echoing unanswered. In some of the rooms the red stone walls would seem to drip blood, and nowhere could she find a window. Sometimes she would hear her father's voice, but always from a long way off, and no matter how hard she ran after it, it would grow fainter and fainter, until it faded to nothing and Arya was alone in the dark." -- A Song of Ice and Fire, George RR Martin
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