No they do not... I can't believe what is going on... I mean with Bush and his whole agenda... We never did find any mass destructions as he so believed in... I am starting to think he made it all up just to finish his daddy's war... I don't know all this is so unsettling for me... I mean now his followers might join up with Bin Laden and something terrible is gonna happen... It is rather scary...
except that the evidence for Saddam Hussein having had them is that he used them, repeatedly.
I will take a longer view, and judge events when I see how Iraq ends up a few years down the line.There is still good cause to hope that it will eventually become a stable democracy, and the greatest threat to that hope comes from the anti Bush/Blair mob.
It is easy to talk about concocted evidence and to make (logically nonsensical) claims about oil. At the end of the day, the world is a better place for Saddam Hussein no longer being in power.
It is unreasonable to blame Bush for the terrorist attacks in Iraq in the same way that it would have been unreasonable to blame the allies for atrocities performed by the NAZIs. The perpetrators are responsible for their own actions, and nothing excuses those actions.
As for the french, I don't believe I've accused them of being silly. Cynical yes, Mercenary yes, self serving even, but not silly.
Quote:except that the evidence for Saddam Hussein having had them is that he used them, repeatedly.
Maybe, but years ago. There is no evidence (so far maybe) that he had any viable WMDs in the past few years, or the possibility of making any. He was no immediate threat to the US, UK and probably not even his neighbours in the middle east. Don't get me wrong, he was an evil man, and should have been removed (as far as external meddling is justified). This was perhaps not the best way to remove him though, and has certainly been messy. Maybe the UN should now step in, to try and stabilise the situation. The main thing is that the Iraqis must be given democratic power, but after some semblance of law and order is re-instated.
The point about oil is over-inflated, but it is suspicious that Bush et al is payrolled by some big companies that just so happen to have been given first dibs at reconstruction contracts, often when local people have been overlooked. The US effort in this area, as usual, seems to have been very heavy-handed. There needs to be a lot more co-operation with and trust placed in the local people. The majority of Iraqis want a peaceful, stable, prosperous country they can rule and order themselves. Saddam has gone, so they have a chance at that. The Americans (and others with them) now need to work out the best way of making peace, and use a lighter hand. The Iraqis need to root out terrorists in their midst and commit to peaceful resolution (a tall order!)
Quote: Maybe, but years ago. There is no evidence (so far maybe) that he had any viable WMDs in the past few years, or the possibility of making any.
He however made it seem as if he still did through his refusal to co-operate with the inspectors. There is also the possibility that he moved them to Syria. In terms of the capability of making them, he did. Chemical weapons can be manufactured in a refrigerated lorry, It is merely a question of knowing what to make and getting the right raw materials.
Quote:(as far as external meddling is justified).
By the same argument, we wouldn't have meddled with Hitler, or Napoleon.
Quote:This was perhaps not the best way to remove him though, and has certainly been messy.
I agree, it has been imperfectly handled, and many aspects could have been planned better. That does not however mean that it was not fundamentally the right thing to do.
Quote:The main thing is that the Iraqis must be given democratic power, but after some semblance of law and order is re-instated.
Absolutely. It is however only because of the coalition liberating Iraq that this is even conceivable.
Quote:often when local people have been overlooked.
In all fairness, a lot of the big projects are beuond the scope of local companies. The contracts are being given to american companies instead of European, rather than instead of Iraqi companies. There are three things to bear in mind on this. Firstly American law requires that where the americans are funding the projects, the contracts must go to american companies, and it would be unfair to criticise Bush for obeying the law. Secondly, why should the contracts go to French/german companies. Their governments tried to block the liberation for commercial reasons, so now they can live with the commercial consequences. Thirdly, while american companies have been given the contracts, they have and most likely will continue to use local subcontractors, so a lot of the money will end up with the Iraqi's anyway.
Quote:There needs to be a lot more co-operation with and trust placed in the local people.
in all fairness, the Americans and British are trying to recruit and train local people for both police and armed forces roles. This will however take time. The media keep harping on about how they are trying to hand over power to the Iraqi's too quickly.
Quote:The majority of Iraqis want a peaceful, stable, prosperous country they can rule and order themselves. Saddam has gone, so they have a chance at that. The Americans (and others with them) now need to work out the best way of making peace, and use a lighter hand. The Iraqis need to root out terrorists in their midst and commit to peaceful resolution (a tall order!)
Absolutely. The people to blame, are the terrorists, and most of them aren't Iraqis.
Quote:the world is a better place for Saddam Hussein no longer being in power
What threat did he pose to the whole world? He doesn't have weapons of mass destruction as imagined by the americans.. so what else could make him so 'lethal' to the world security?
Quote:What threat did he pose to the whole world? He doesn't have weapons of mass destruction as imagined by the americans.. so what else could make him so 'lethal' to the world security?
Well some obviously thought so...
The Scum, during the firefighters strike, in the run up to the war... "FIREFIGHTERS ARE SADDAM'S STOOGES"
Quote:Chemical weapons can be manufactured in a refrigerated lorry, It is merely a question of knowing what to make and getting the right raw materials
True i suppose, but in what quantities? I could make chemical weapons by nicking some ingredients from work. Would be so easy to do. Don't even get me started on the diamorphine (i'd be a millionaire!)...
Anyway, the other thing was the challenge that Saddam wasn't dangerous. I agree, as i said, that he was a minimal threat to the world as a whole, compared to some other dictators (North Korea eg). But, he was a big danger to his people - brutal repression, civil war, near-genocide in some cases. He was a bad man, i think that's undisputed.
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