Re: Magic Resistance .. the debate so far. (long but importa
“Wielding the Invisible Trebuchet” on a “fecking big rock”, would require more than a couple of levels above 3rd mag. The Unseen Porter can move objects as if it was a person with +5 strength, and at a slow pace no more than 6ft above the ground.
I don't agree. Why can't I simply add two magnitudes to the size of the rock as used in Wielding the Invisible Sling?
Also by basing it on Wielding the Invisible Sling you would produce a none targeted spell; as the big fecking rock was targeting the individual and would thus automatically hit.
This, however, is an excellent point which does negate my example Edited by: KillAllTremere at: 31/1/06 13:42
Re: Magic Resistance .. the debate so far. (long but importa
As for the aims of fixing the canon AM5 parma rules I agree with 3 out of the 4, but as I stated previously I don't see the need for option (2) as described.
Allow enchanted/conjured objects and creatures to affect a magus as a mundane item/individual would, while the enchantment/magical effect is required to penetrate parma as normal.
It's the muto that causes the problems IMO, I have no problem with a magically conjured wolf of natural size not being able to bite a magus with a parma. They are entirely magical and <serf's parma > can be disenchanted so why should they be able to? Though if allowing 'em to bite someone is required for a pink dot fix then fine. N.B. I have no problem with a magus being able to pick up and wield a conjured sword.
As to what I'd like parma to do
Should a mundane sword with a magical pink dot on it be parma'd?
No.
Should a mundane sword with magical flames/edge of the razor/etc be parma'd?
Yes.
This is I think where it gets tricky, so here's another probably horribly flawed idea off the top of my head for someone to shoot down
What if the parma were to be given a modicum of limited "intelligence" (it was Bonisagus' big breakthrough after all) so it could select a little to meet our requirements on tricky issues? i.e. it only works to block magics that: perceive an aspect of the magus; change, damage or control his/her mind or body; or, are capable of directly affecting a magus to a degree sufficient to inflict/remove a penalty/wound/fatigue level?
This version of the parma wouldn't prevent natural rocks/fires etc that had been flung at someone but as Simon and Nick have pointed out doing that is actually pretty difficult. It would stop magical things being created and flung. It wouldn't stop swords with pink dots as the magic isn't affecting the magus, but it would stop flaming ones. It almost certainly needs further rewording to stop exploits but how about it?
Edited by: KillAllTremere at: 31/1/06 16:18
Re: Magic Resistance .. the debate so far. (long but importa
In response to your first post
From a glance I would agree with you that all you'd need to increase the size of the effect to take into account the increased size of the rock (+2).
However other Rego spells in the book seem to be split into two categories, move small things quickly (WTIS,Crystal Shard) or move larger things slowly (The Unseen Porter, Rise of the feather body). Looking at Lift the Dangling Puppet (ReCo15) this can move a person of +1 size or less vertically upwards as fast as smoke rises though a heavy person rises slower. I'd say that not only would you need to increase magnitude for the increased size of the rock but also for moving that size of rock at speed as well.
Just my interpretation based on other spells.
Edited by: SimpleSimon101 at: 31/1/06 14:23
Re: Magic Resistance .. the debate so far. (long but importa
I'm not sure about intelligent/aware parma will have to think about it some more.
Not knowing what Serf's parma is I goggled it and found many references but no actual explanation in the 31 hits I got back. However searches for Parma alone will result in 8,120,000 mainly for ham and italy
The main problem with leaving the canon rules in place for parma are not just pink sword exploits (which lets face it no one is going to use for fear of being lynched, at least I’d hope). But it does bring up other concerns, an example on one of the AM boards is a sword with Virulent Flame (+20 Penetration) and a Large Perdo Corpus effect (+6 Penetration), when this sword hits a magus who's param is say 10 against both effects, the Ignem spell penetrates parma the perdo does not, which of these options happens?
1. Because the Perdo effect is block the mundane blade and the Ignem are also blocked.
2. The mundane blade and the Ignem effect penetrate but the Perdo does no damage.
3. As the Ignem Penetrates the other effect penetrates along with it.
4. Three elements of the sword are all treated differently, the mundane blade is resisted by Soak, the Ignem penetrates, the Perdo is blocked by parma.
I think 2 & 4 are probably the best option but following canon, option 1 would be the best fit.
As detailed in Nick’s My concerns about the AM5 resistance rules and the MR previous thread, it is difficult to determine which magic effects are block and which aren’t, if you us CrCo to improve your presence are you said to have a magic effect over you, if so would you be blocked/repelled by parma?
Edited by: SimpleSimon101 at: 31/1/06 15:16
Re: Magic Resistance .. the debate so far. (long but importa
Have you tried google instead of goggle? That way if you search for "serf's parma" the first hit you get back explains it
Serf's Parma
"I'm doing this from memory because I'm at work and I left my books at home."
Re: Magic Resistance .. the debate so far. (long but importa
Yes, however the description was as enlightening as most Criamon. Serf's Parma "Once used by the then-current ArM Line Developer...!" very informative. Edited by: SimpleSimon101 at: 31/1/06 16:03
Re: Magic Resistance .. the debate so far. (long but importa
This thread is getting too confused to follow easily (and has got badly sidelined into other arguments). Will start a new thread with some summary of the position and the objections so far.
Sorry to do this again - but otherwise we'll just go around in circles.
Edited by: 
> can be disenchanted so why should they be able to? Though if allowing 'em to bite someone is required for a pink dot fix then fine. N.B. I have no problem with a magus being able to pick up and wield a conjured sword. 
Edited by: 
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