Report with feedback.
Only posting this here: Green = Mackey, Red = my post report comments.
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Nightshade Report – August ’03
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Overview:
The Nightshade class is a class that which, once matured, is a very strong class; much of which can be attributed to our Realm Ability selection. Up until that time however, there are many obstacles in the way of the growth of the individual, as groups (PvE and RvR) are very hard to come by to nightshades of all levels. However, if someone enjoys the challenge of a cerebral class that can solo in RvR and can stick it out to the higher RR, this class is very rewarding.
Concerns:
Low Realm Rank performance: Was mentioned as an on-going developmental challenge in past reports.
Working on solutions here, but nothing for 1.65.
Magic Development: Currently once a Nightshade gets to level 48, there is no further means to strengthen the magical side of the Nightshade by any means. There is no gear we can obtain, no buffs from teammates to be had, nor realm abilities that can be acquired. This leaves us with an avenue of character development that is closed off.
Not sure how the resist changes will affect nightshades so we need to see how that plays out before we look to address this.
Critical Strike/Hidden Attacks: Tests are on-going in effort to better demonstrate the problems that Nightshades have with the high variance and the lack of dependability of our hidden attacks.
Please gather the data needed to show things are working in a way we do not intend. If that can be done, we'll fix whatever is necessary.
Groupability: Last Report, suggestions were requested here.
- Increased visual range of stealth to group members.
- Presence of a single assassin in a group increases gold acquired from mobs (not a RvR skill, but RvR groups can be had from PvE relationships)
- Increased range for RPs for assassins, while grouped, due to scouting role.
- A timered ability to get an accurate count (based on stealth?) of all enemies in your bubble.
Good ideas that we'll keep in mind. Not something we'll get to soon.
Specline Issues:
General: Waiting for the style review.
Celtic Duel: Nightshades express a desire to have a reason, style-wise, to spec this line. While it was mentioned as being possibly addressed in the style review, this point warrants its own bullet still.
Okay, be prepared to make your case when we discuss it.
New Issues:
- none -
Other Issues:
Waiting Game: Nightshades are currently waiting for the anticipated Style, RA and resists issues to be launched/reviewed for some of our problems.
Okay, but it never hurts to explore and articulate the challenges and problems if you see more then what's mentioned in this report.
I talked with Mackey on this comment and basically I over did it on reducing redundancy from report to report. No issue, some repeating information is good - you'll see a similar comment later on as well.
SM Pet Intercept: Pets intercepting Creeping Death stun and still intercepting attacks is an issue for nightshades.
A unique challenge that is unlikely to change.
Talked with Mackey here too -- he misunderstood my statement. This is classified as a bug.
Poison Interface: Was mentioned as a med/long term goal, leaving it here due to importance.
If you have the room in the report, it makes good sense to keep these things highlighted by including them.
/groundassist: Target cannot be stealthed for this command to function.
Interesting. Bug /appeal. I suspect it's just an oversight, but there may be some legit reason for it that I haven't thought of. I'll check into it.
Item Problems:
- none –
Nage42 Registered User
Posts: 439
(8/27/03 6:37 pm) Reply
.
Ohhhh, the fish just keeps on dangling in front.
>>Critical Strike/Hidden Attacks: Tests are on-going in effort to better demonstrate the problems that Nightshades have with the high variance and the lack of dependability of our hidden attacks.
>Please gather the data needed to show things are working in a way we do not intend. If that can be done, we'll fix whatever is necessary.
Quote: show things are working in a way we do not intend.
Does this mean that they have actually come out and said what they intend? If this is the case then I'm sure the community would very much like to hear just what the hell we are supposed to be doing to fit into their vision.
gyth Registered User
Posts: 290
(8/27/03 7:14 pm) Reply
re:
/appeal ?!!? LOL, that has to be a joke
Buhmzeela Registered User
Posts: 12
(8/28/03 5:19 am) Reply
Re: re:
Any idea at all when this "style review" and implementation will be happening .. i mean is it like the RvR expansion.. where it will happen after ToA in the next spring or what? or is it like a patch or two away..
Lakeb Registered User
Posts: 316
(8/28/03 6:04 am) Reply
CD
With regard to CD styles and how they could be improved...
One thing I notice about CD styles is that there are a lot of bleeds. Mythic seems to have tinkered with this with the recent boost to blademaster damage so this is obviously intentional.
Put simply, bleeds need to stack. As a stealther, I depend on the hit and run, my best kills are when I load my enemy up with poisons and DOTs and start running while he slowly expires. Stacking bleeds would help this.
More broadly, the style effects available in this game are snare, stun, bleed, high/low bonus damage, attack bonus/penalty, fatigue cost, hinder (not sure how this is different from snare), taunt, detaunt. CD features 4 bleeds throughout the chain while pierce and blades have 2 (CS has 6, but we all know CS needs a bump anyway).
Another possible bump to CD would be to add additional procs, similar to Valewalker procs. Perhaps on the 3rd style of a chain an End over time could proc. thus giving me a reason to put a 3 style chain on my qbar.
Re: CD
Heya Coug if your still lurking I would be more than happy to come to pen and test crit strike issues. I would test them on my own but I'm not sure what criteria Mythic would respect and look at.
Also, I would like to see what Mythic thinks CS should do. I put a lot of points into this, points that could have gone to added hits per turn (CD) or raising my weaponskil(pierce). I did this because I wanted a reliable and damaging front loaded damage style. I don't have it. Heros can do 600+ points of damage on a swing my perf does half of that. I don't expect to hit like a hero (although why not I got crap for hp) but I would like to at least hit like one when my PA gets off.
Tyl Registered User
Posts: 49
(8/28/03 10:50 am) Reply
Re: CD
yeah, so cougar, since they opened the door on this one, maybe you already know, what IS mythic's idea for how CS shoudl work? What do they intend for it to be...?
Re: CD
I do not know timetables. That is just not something that us TL's get info on.
As for what they expect out of CS -- the burden of proof is on us. I need to run one specific test in the near future (after I get back from training more than likely) and then I'll be able to talk about this from an informed stand point.
Re: Report with feedback.
I have a 5L9 Bladeshade on Percival, 35+15 stealth 50+15 blades 50+15 CS 1+15 CD 12+15 envenom (yeah, I know, weird spec). Personally, I'm blown away at the fact that lvl 44 and 50 styles, being the 3rd and 4th styles of a chain, do not consistently do appreciably more damage or have a considerably more profound style effect than the lvl 12 opener style. It also makes little sense to have 3 of 4 styles in a chain cause the same effect, bleed in this case. In any event, my distaste for the broken CS line knows no bounds, so if there's anything I could do to help out in getting it fixed (or any other class issues you've mentioned) drop me a line at OverZealous@ij.net. I could also log some buffed fights out in emain if you're interested in those (there's no such thing as an unbuffed stealther fight on my server anymore =/).
Dalcor Registered User lvl1
Posts: 3
(9/2/03 9:22 am) Reply
Re: Report with feedback.
Ok I can live with burden of proof on us. But I would still like to know what is expected otherwise we show proof and have now idea what it means. I'm not talking about gimping the tests, just that we say average = blah and they say well blah is good enough. Well crap I can say that and I have no idea on how to play the game. Front loaded damage is the way to win in this game everyone knows it. However, because we are fast little buggers with dinky weapons we end up doing damage pushed over a longer time. This makes us disadvataged beacuse as you know we are not made for the long struggle.
Re: Report with feedback.
Show me your tests/spec and your averages and I'll let you know if they look about right or not I'm not going to trap myself or Mythic into saying such and such damage is a magic number
Dalcor Registered User lvl2
Posts: 5
(9/3/03 4:44 am) Reply
Re: Report with feedback.
That's to bad because you'd think they would know. I'm really not trying to flame or sound bitchy. Just wondering if a non buff botted shade really should be playing this game.
Re: Report with feedback.
This is just info from general out-in-the-field rvr gathered over the past couple days, don't know if you can use it but meh, can't hurt to try. I'll keep recording numbers if you can use the stuff:
Stats(buffed):
289 str
277 qui
yellow spec haste
1369 WS
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