Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
uote:
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"Good - Solo sneaked through Hate to steal the epic book. (solo appart from port up)
Bad - MQed it.
I am not quite high enough to start my epic, but i will be doing this the good way. It just seems like a great use of ones skills.
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Sorry, but with the new hate, it is a piece of cake now. It's not even dangerous. "
I see you have never tried this on SZ with 3 65's from a hostile team in the zone.
Castier Registered User
Posts: 97
(4/26/04 9:36 am)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
About 3 years ago a friend of mine sent me a tell asking for help with finding his corpse. He had gone LD after being attacked. I told him I would.
He had been killed by a "mob" in Kithicor while running from Rivervale to West Commonlands. I asked him what the mob looked like that killed him. It turned out that it was an NPC from one of the cabins on the north side of Kithicor, one that looked like a monk.
I told him I knew where it was and did a quick grid search to the east of the cabins and found his corpse partly buried in a tree.
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Now days with windowed capability most anyone can pull up a map of a zone if they don't already have one loaded in the MAP feature. It makes getting around alot easier. The FIND option makes things even easier when searching for NPC's.
Know your class? Know the game? Know the zones you go to?
I definitely agree that a good EQplayer makes all the difference with any class, especially rogues.
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
A good rogue can spell ROGUE.
A good rogue would never be caught dead wearing rouge. Yeah, that includes you barbarian ladies.
A goor rogue knows that jumping in with extreme DPS on a raid mob as soon as it starts is not often a good idea...and will wait a bit longer than the rest to make sure they are alive and agro is locked on the tanking melee.
A good rogue visits the Safehouse. Often. Daily. Hourly.
A good rogue knows that, while rangers can briefly outdamage them, they die more too.
A good rogue understands the difference between when to use TC, and when to use Duelist.
A good rogue doesn't go around half-cocked because that's dangerous behind ANYONE.
A good rogue KEEPS MOVING, ADJUSTING, ANTICIPATING. Don't just stand there.
A good rogue lets the entire group loot.
A good rogue will tell you if you're a good rogue or not...and will try to help you if you're not.
A good rogue doesn't mind the....um....view.
And finally....a good rogue knows when to speak their mind.
Fignutn69 Registered User
Posts: 45
(4/26/04 11:00 am)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
A good rogue can pull every fire mini solo and do phase 3 duo with 2 other people!
Riot Sio Zon Registered User
Posts: 162
(4/26/04 11:44 am)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
Quote:A good rogue can pull every fire mini solo and do phase 3 duo with 2 other people!
A good Rogue can count...
Silvorn Registered User
Posts: 581
(4/26/04 11:45 am)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
A "good" rogue isn't about gear.
A "good" rogue isn't about your DPS.
A "good" rogue could probably be a good cleric, or good enchanter, or a good warrior. The difference between a "good" PC and a "bad" one is the largely the person behind them. The difference after that is what they picked up playing the class.
I've seen L65 rogues with gear that smokes what I am wearing and I would never insult the community by using their name and the word good together.
Call me old school. But I hate seeing cluelss twinks made to pump out DPS running around that know nothing but how to stand in a camp and bacsktab. It doesn't matter if they can outdamage everyone they aren't and probably never will be a "good" rogue.
You're probably a good rogue if...
you worked to get your levels.
you earned your gear by getting it yourself or at least earning the cash yourself.
If you didn't get any power levelling
When you couldn't get a group you figured out what you could and couldn't solo...
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
Good rogues are similar to a good warrior. We both hit auto attack and then have a couple other buttons to play with through the rest of the fight. Positioning is also key to both classes. While good warriors know how to position a mob and turn it so its back is exposed at all times(well with a rogue in a group that is), good rogues can explain to bad warriors in very simple terms how to position mobs and turn them so their backs are exposed at all times. Oh yeah and not get too pissed on the very next pull when they again have to explain how to keep the mob out of the wall, and so on and so forth. Basically paying attention to what is going on in the game, class makeup of your group, and what kind of mob you are fighting.
Lets see what else makes a good rogue, well most everything has been put down here already. Basically I agree with the notion that a good eq player makes a good rogue, the class just really isn't that complicated we don't have that many options. Options are something like this :
Attack or don't attack
Backstab or don't backstab
evade or don't evade
Unhide to engage raid mob or don't unhide(some of you will probably want to chastise me for this comment but when dealing with the 2 group guild raids and the class makeup of these raids that I embark on... trust me it is an option to consider since I don't have escape yet)
use posion or don't use posion (I don't deal with posions personally, I just can't handle the farming *shrug*)
So there you essentiually have the 5 choices a rogue has to make. Not very difficult really, mostly no brainer decisions, the bad rogues are mearly separated by the lack of brain power to know when to do or not do one of the 5 options they have. A bad rogue will probably be less of an obvious thing then say... a bad shaman. A bad shaman can't target through and slow multiple mobs on a pull, and perhaps will even start running around if they pull aggro(or zone and not tell you they have run for it, yes have had that happen lol). A bad rogue will... possibly get aggro (if there is a poor tank), and most likely do less dps. Thats about it, like others have said unless you are a rogue you probably won't notice a bad rogue, but you probably would notice a bad *insert class here*.
Personally after having lvled up my main (63 rogue) over the past 4.5 years of playing the game, I have probably learned more about how to play other classes then I have about how to play rogues. Why? cause there just isn't a whole lot to know. Pay attention, use some common sense and you have the rogue class under control. Other then some little tricks of the trade like aggro management(seriously not an issue since the line of stuns for pallies, aggro spells for sks, and new taunt abilities for warriors), there isn't that much to playing a rogue, more often then not you spend more time making sure the tank is doing his job then time worried about what you are doing.
Shamroc1 Registered User
Posts: 738
(4/26/04 1:10 pm)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
If your cant define what makes a Good rogue w/o reading this thread. . .then your not a very good rogue.
Emmerzen Registered User
Posts: 38
(4/26/04 1:38 pm)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
Gear and DPS has nothing to do with it.
Staying alive is the key. Through fights, CR, enrage, rampage, infuriate, traps, trains, AE (dmg or braking hide), see sos mobs. You name it, if you can stay alive through any of that, you are doing something right.
Alive dps > dead dps.
Duo xp on Sontalak and Dain are always my favorite memories. (shaman was the other surviving class both times!)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
Sorry, gear does make one better. I would take a well gear rogue over a sucky gear rogue. Assuming they both where good. Common sence really.
Good Rogue...
-Pays attention.
-Never AFK.
-Knows how to mutli CR.
-Knows how to get any corpse, minus the 1% fallen threw the ground
-Good gear (what ever you all say, It helps and you know it.)
-Doesn't die
-Doesn't ask other rogues questions.
-Has Rogues asking him/her questions.
-Knows how to stay behind the mob.
-If you have to ask then your not.
Bad Rogue...
-Box's.
-AFK threw half the fight.
Edit.
#1 reason you can tell a good rogue from a bad...
His magelo says 1561 attack, not 1562
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
A good rogue is almost never noticed by his group as good.
And no its not always about not getting hit as the cleric implied. That measure of not getting hit says rogues with suck weapons rule~
Turlo Registered User
Posts: 486
(4/26/04 3:45 pm)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
A good rogue is one that gets asked by a rogue four levels their senior to do a CR for them. (true story and pre-SoS days).
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
Well, I don't believe the cleric said explisitly that a good rogue dosen't get hit.
The cleric said that a good rogue dosen't need HEALS. There's a big diference between the two.
A good rogue can handle CRs from most anywhere, with the possible exception of GoD. That includes some corpses that cannot bee seen from anywhere due to geometry.
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
A good rogue is makes the group more efficient then 5 people would be without him. However that doesnt always translate to not needing heals.
I like to laugh when tanks play "save the rogue" while casters are getting beat up. It happens far to often.
Turlo Registered User
Posts: 487
(4/26/04 4:22 pm)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
The comment about not hammering evade is so true in the situation Qutsemnie brought up.
A true rogue will save the cleric by pulling agro off with one backstab, wait for the warrior to taunt, then evade onto the warrior. If the rogue hammers evade, this strategy would not work.
Zahrdahl Registered User
Posts: 211
(4/26/04 5:11 pm)
Re: What defines a "good" Rogue?
Quote:A goor rogue knows that jumping in with extreme DPS on a raid mob as soon as it starts is not often a good idea...and will wait a bit longer than the rest to make sure they are alive and agro is locked on the tanking melee.
How often is aggro a problem on raid boss-mobs nowadays? Not often.. Jumping in right away is never, ever, a problem for me. Guess it might depend on what your guild is capable of raiding (meaning, how good gear/aggro your tanks have).
Quote:A good rogue understands the difference between when to use TC, and when to use Duelist.
Yeah, never use TC!
Quote:A good rogue lets the entire group loot.
Uhm?
Anyway, I disagree with the people that say gear doesn't make a "good rogue". It's not all that matters, but it sure as hell makes a big difference. Our job is to do dps, and a better geared rogue of similar level will do that. It's that simple.
Rogue's CR ability doesn't really matter as much anymore since GoD as it used to, but yeah a "good rogue" can stay alive longer than a "bad rogue" while still managing to do the same dps by controlling his/her aggro better, which is not just a matter of gear.
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