Goal for a rogue by 65
Whats the ac and hitpoint goal for a 65 rogue as far as the standard. My main is a warrior and my rogue is an alt but just wanted to check what I may need to work on , im 55 now. Thanks for advice in advance.
Registered User
Posts: 2556
(3/9/04 1:39 am) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
Well, I think you are thinking of it from a Warrior's perspective first off (and secondly this will be moved to the Training Studio).
A Rogue's goal for HP/AC at 65? Roughly 3500HP and 1200AC will be just dandy for most things but it depends far more on how you spend your time. The raiding Rogue may well want considerably higher base HP and probably values saves well above AC at any point. You'll get Hp/saves/AC raiding anyhow so that's little concern.
A Rogue's goal at 65 though is not HP/AC, it is Attack, various direct combat effects and weapon-selection. As a standard example, the vast majority of Rogues want SoT and not BSS for a buff and organize chains of support classes for Fero/FA. Attack being our primary stat until capped, we want buffs like focus (assuming not pre-capped) for the measly strength and dex and not the HP by and large.
Now, there is a very old adage that "a dead Rogue does no damage" but these days it becomes more and more moot. In exp groups it sure is nice to have AC/HP so you can pinch-hit as a tank but for raids (and even exping in some higher content) it simply is not an option most of the time. Yes we want HP for wading in the AEs and eating the occasional riposte but it is not priority number one by any stretch.
Aliskat Registered User
Posts: 167
(3/9/04 7:15 am) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
1450 attack for the average rogue? By average you must mean someone with about 300 LDoN wins or someone who raids a lot.
To the original poster: don't be too heartbroken if you don't reach 1400, much less 1450 anytime soon after hitting lvl 65. There are 3057 rogue magelos listed on EQrankings. Out of these 2585 are lvl 65. The median rogue out of these 2585 (number 1292) has 1356 attack.
Cheers,
Aliskat
Zymurg Registered User
Posts: 27
(3/9/04 8:49 am) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
I Dare to say I'm an Average (pre-elem) rogue at 65, (accepting that everyones version of average is relative.)
Not sure how current my Magelo is (I'll update it when I get home) But I have 90 AA, most of the important offensive/defensive pre-GoD.
My naked attack hovers around 1250 (I'm not using ragebringer), 1450 - 1500 is my BUFFED atk goal.
My guild is a Month or so away from VT. I need about 10 more LDoN before I get my first Veng. IV aug, and another 20 after that away from my second which will put me in the 1300 ish range. I think that is more reasonable as a goal on Average.
1400+ worn attack is certainly obtainable, but only at the VT/Elem level or after many, many hours of LDoN grinding.
Aliskat Registered User
Posts: 168
(3/9/04 9:10 am) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
Zymurg,
You probably would benefit from mainhanding the Garg Talon and offhanding Ragebringer at this point. Since you don't have ANY +attack modifiers you really should make this a priority. I know, it's all common sense, but I thought I'd point it out.
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
Its hard to say that by level 65, you should have this number for HP, and that number for ATK, and yet another number for AC, if for no other reason than the fact that most of the numbers I see posted would require raid level gear to attain.
High HP should always be a goal. Everything you do in EQ as a rogue (and virtually any other class as well) is affected one way or another by how many HP you have. The more HP you have, the more things you can do. Part of having high HP is getting ND3, and PE later on. But that requires getting a fair amount of AA's, since most rogues will want to get at least some of the offensive AA's before they get ND3. Getting STA as high as you can also helps with boosting your HP.
ATK has become easier to get than it used to be. But you need 250 worn ATK (or 150 worn ATK and a primal/prismatic weapon) to max this stat out, and thats not easy to get. I've been raiding with my rogue for about 18 months, and it was only a couple of months ago that I maxed out ATK. And even that took buying two Veng 4 augments (one type 7 and one type 8) , a Veng 3 augment, and an AoB augment to finally reach the cap.
AC for a rogue is nice to have, but in most cases, its not a make or break stat. Rogues are not tanks, and while we do get hit, we also have evade to push those attacks back onto other people, most of the time anyways.
An alt rogue is going to face challenges in getting good gear and good weapons. Without access to raid level items, about the best he could probably expect to see in the near term for HP would be about 4000 or so, unbuffed. Contrast that to my rogue who currently has 5937 HP unbuffed.
Edited by: Bigmeeno at: 3/9/04 10:22 am
skewerzjoo Registered User
Posts: 248
(3/9/04 11:41 am) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
at 61, i have an attack of about 1315 self-buffed, and hp around the 3600 mark. I've been blessed with a good bazaar life, though, so I make lots of money, and can buy good gear.
With that said, I don't think 4khp and 1400atk at 65 is completely out of the question...
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
Granted, I went the HP route because I do take quite abit of damage, but my god, I didn't realise my attack sucked THAT much. Time to start trading out hp for atk.. =(
dugannw Registered User
Posts: 342
(3/9/04 1:40 pm) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
Just going from memory, approximately a year ago when I hit 65 (LDoN didnt exist) I think I was just under 3k hp and attack was probably low to mid 1200's with Ragebringer (primary at the time) and mostly Kael (giant faction) ToV gear.
Left the game before Luclin and came back a week before PoP. Much better vengeance and hp gear available now, so I would say somewhere at least a little above those numbers.
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
i didn't think 1450 was over the hill at all
here's a SS from about mid velious era
has almost 1300 atk back then, and that's prior to vengeance items even existing (notice epic is even bagged [i think i was testing max ac or something dumb] so easily over 1300 atk)
Jhunpei Registered User
Posts: 26
(3/9/04 4:24 pm) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
As a non-raiding rogue with I think pretty good gear I'm currently sitting at just under 4000 HPs, a little under 1200 AC and 1353atk self buffed.
That's at max strength, offhanding epic, veng III, aura of battle x 3 and goblin skull earring.
Currently working on veng IV augs.
Edited by: Jhunpei at: 4/10/04 1:05 am
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
Its harder than you think Tikker. I have 305 unbuffed str. I have 180 worn atk and my atk is 1467. Getting that much atk for a non raiding rogue would be next to impossible.
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
I am in a pre-ele raiding guild, well pre-sol ro, but have a bit of VT, Ssra, LDoN, and low tier GoD stuff. My magelo is not right for attack and ac, but they are 1309 ac, 1426 attack unbuffed ( need to work on ac ><). But pre ele and stuff, 1400 ish attack is definatly workable, if you raid.
ElegyBard Registered User
Posts: 11
(3/9/04 11:44 pm) Reply
Alt Rogue
My alt rogue is at a similar level to you gearwise, but with a greater focus on atk. Have a look through her magelo and see if that gives you any pointers:
EQFattius Registered User
Posts: 204
(3/9/04 11:47 pm) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
Quote:Everything you do in EQ as a rogue (and virtually any other class as well) is affected one way or another by how many HP you have
I dunno, Jim. I'd say in 99% of encounters my hit points didn't have to be above 2k, and for 80% of encounters I could have done just fine having a single hit point.
wheeto Registered User
Posts: 60
(3/9/04 11:49 pm) Reply
Re: Alt Rogue
Quote:Now, there is a very old adage that "a dead Rogue does no damage" but these days it becomes more and more moot.
glad someone said it. i've just had so many people cram "screw aa's, get levels. screw str/dex. get hitpoints. hitpoints are god. there is no cap to hitpoints. get them. a dead rogue does no damage" down my throat, the game just seemed like a job i didn't want.
gimbley mcstab
58th halfling rogue
knights of omen
saryn server
Registered User
Posts: 2560
(3/10/04 12:52 am) Reply
Re: Alt Rogue
I'd agree completely that 1450 base is quite obtainable, although with some dedicated effort as pointed out.
I raid casually, a couple of times a week, and hit some LDoN but not very often at all anymore. I could have capped worn attack if I'd stayed on the LDoN bandwagon by now but frankly, I spend time futzing around with guildmates more often than not these days. It's all fine though, my attack goes up at least once a month and it'll cap in due time I am sure.
Droppable items alone can provide some pretty good attack these days and LDoN can provide a ton of it, although slowly if you are just hunting in PU groups. I would say that it is a slow progression from hitting 65 to hitting 65 with the AAs you want and the attack rating you'd like though. More often than not it is a big tradeoff of loot v exp but LDoN tends to offer both, especially for the High-risk crowd. The biggest issue with LDoN though is that the augs are stuck where you put them. That means the casual raider gets somewhat fixed in equipement as "upgrading" a slot requires replacing Veng augs, which often fall behind even the slow raiders rate of advancement. Glancing at my own Magelo, I've got better gear for a number of slots in terms of HP/AC/saves but I'd need to sacrifice attack to swap them. Poor planning on my part likely but hey, I am not as serious about the game as I once was =)
cheers,
Cel
Feochadan Registered User
Posts: 188
(3/10/04 5:19 am) Reply
Re: Goal for a rogue by 65
Quote:I dunno, Jim. I'd say in 99% of encounters my hit points didn't have to be above 2k, and for 80% of encounters I could have done just fine having a single hit point.
I would even add than in 95% of the other encounters where I suffer from a critical hit points failure, 20k are not enough.
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