Registered Member
Posts: 40
(8/18/03 6:40 am) Reply
Re: Oh~
Quote:How about they do that because it's humane? You do know not every person put to death was guilty of the crime they were said to have commited.
True, but you are missing the point. The point is that they ARE going to die and, guilty or not, a clean needle and some alcohol rubbed on their arm is NOT going to change anything by that time or make anything better.
heh
"Abortion - My body, my choice. Deal with it, guys.
"
It isn't your body. Using that logic a man has no responsibility for a baby made since it isnt his body, and I can go kill anyone I wish since I did it with my body. It isnt your body. Friggin libs ignore obvious facts just to keep their rights. Sorry, you seem to be missing the fact that having sex also means responsiblity. It is too bad the Liberals deny all accountability and responsibility for anything, and expect handouts. Asshats. Abortion != birth control. Learn it.
I WISH we could set up a test world. It would be a parallel universe and we could leave Saddam in power and let all the idiots follow president gore and watch us get nuked when we try to stop the next agression on Kuwait or Saudi Arabia. Then we could sit around and watch as terrorists slowly kill us off by the thousands. Sounds unlikely? So did 9/11 until it happened. Liberals are too GDed narrow minded to see the big picture. It is sickening.
Tyesic Registered Member
Posts: 34
(8/18/03 12:26 pm) Reply
er..
I am kindda new to these boards, so I dont know Emodius at all.....but I think I love him.
Now, I'm not a religious buff or anything, but anyone ever hear of the famous commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill?
Illystra Registered Member
Posts: 2162
(8/18/03 10:49 pm) Reply
Re: heh
Quote:It isn't your body.
Last I checked, it was.
Quote:Using that logic a man has no responsibility for a baby made since it isnt his body, and I can go kill anyone I wish since I did it with my body. It isnt your body.
Incorrect, and quite honestly, I'm suprised at how horrid of an argument someone as intelligent as you has made here.
I'll happily agree with you that abortion should not be birth control. But condoms break, the pill does have a minute chance of not preventing a fertilized egg to take hold in the womb, diaphragms can be inserted improperly, etc.
That's not even going into the rape/incest/other argument, which is a completely different and irrelevant topic.
By making the statement that you have here, I can only logically assume that you are also against stem cell research, since it does involve creating human life (in the form of early cells) and then effectively killing the human that could have been formed out of those cells in order to do research into medicines/cures.
If that's not true, then please, let me know when you consider the clump of cells to be human enough to not abort. After all, they were created the same way, by fertilizing an egg.
Quote:Friggin libs ignore obvious facts just to keep their rights.
This country was founded on liberty, my friend. Meanwhile, while us liberals supposedly ignore obvious facts, we have Ashcroft ignoring the Constitution for his Patriot and Victory Acts.
Quote:Sorry, you seem to be missing the fact that having sex also means responsiblity.
Correct, it does. Can I assume then that you practiced strict abstinence until you were married or are still a virgin to this day if you are not?
Quote:It is too bad the Liberals deny all accountability and responsibility for anything, and expect handouts.
Really? I challenge you to back up this statement with facts.
Quote:Asshats.
Uninventive. I was expecting something more along the lines of "cum-guzzling @#%$-holster" from you. Losing your touch, old man?
Quote:Abortion != birth control. Learn it.
Thank you, Captain Obvious. Would you like a cookie for this profound statement?
Quote:I WISH we could set up a test world. It would be a parallel universe and we could leave Saddam in power and let all the idiots follow president gore and watch us get nuked when we try to stop the next agression on Kuwait or Saudi Arabia.
Well, we're currently seeing a test of what happens when the most powerful nation in the world begins to act like a rogue state.
Oh. Wait. That phrase only applies to countries that piss us off.
Quote:Then we could sit around and watch as terrorists slowly kill us off by the thousands.
And that's still not happening? The "war on terrorism" will be about as effective as the war on drugs. There's always going to be some lunatic fanatic with money, men, and explosives that doesn't like us or someone else too well.
Quote:Sounds unlikely? So did 9/11 until it happened.
Actually, reports have shown that our intel had identified the threat of terrorists using airliners to attack us, but nothing was done. Might have sounded unlikely to you or me, but the threat was identified, and the ball was dropped. Invading nations and lashing out like a rattlesnake (or, more appropriately for this board, a hurt, scared woman) is not going to bring back the 3000 people that died, and more than likely, is not going to prevent further people from dying, whether they are uniformed or civilian.
Quote:Liberals are too GDed narrow minded to see the big picture. It is sickening.
And you, dear Emodius, are lacking the open-mindedness to look past your need for revenge that is sorely mistaken for patriotism these days.
Registered Member
Posts: 1814
(8/19/03 4:22 am) Reply
Re: heh
Quote:Correct, it does. Can I assume then that you practiced strict abstinence until you were married or are still a virgin to this day if you are not?
No, it means you can assume that if he were to have an incident like you have described (broken condom, birth control fluke, etc), in order to live up to his own expectations he would take responsibility for his actions.
He in no way implied that you must remain abstinent, he stated that if you do the deed you might be forced to pay the price. If someone isn't mature enough to face up to the possible consequences of having sex they shouldn't be doing it, because like you said, even modern birth control methods have small probabilities of failure.
Quote:Actually, reports have shown that our intel had identified the threat of terrorists using airliners to attack us, but nothing was done.
Might be because we didn't want to look paranoid, or like the world bullies. We weren't about to fool around the 2nd time we got intel on possible major terrorist activity. If we had been froggy the first time and prevented 9/11, everyone would be saying that we were crazy to think that they could take over our planes with box cutters and fly them not only into the Twin Towers, but the Pentagon as well. Nobody would have believed that story, and we would be more ridiculed than we are now. But what did we do? We sat on the sidelines and bang....9/11 happened.
I was and still am all for the latest war in Iraq. Once again, we got intel, and this time we jumped. Now everyone thinks we're bullies. Go figure. Edited by: Ibannez Fivestring at: 8/19/03 4:53 am
Seryne Registered Member
Posts: 770
(8/19/03 5:14 am) Reply
.
I'm missing no point, quite the contrary. It's inhumane to jab a rusty needle into someone just because they're due to die soon.
Just because my grandma is lying on her death bed in a hospital doesnt mean I'm going to play "Grandma is the trampoline!"
Registered Member
Posts: 2922
(8/19/03 5:22 am) Reply
Socialized medicine using Belgium as a model?
Hello, their tax rate is almost 60 percent.
60 PERCENT!
It's no wonder they can afford that when they have their hands that deeply in their citizens' pockets. The Belgian system of medicine is nice, but very expensive. No one thinks about that.
Registered Member
Posts: 1815
(8/19/03 6:01 am) Reply
Re: Socialized medicine using Belgium as a model?
I have to agree with Seryne. While it might seem pointless or even silly to use disinfectant on a needle carrying a lethal dose of poison, it's a simple thing that costs nothing and shows some measure of dignity for the process.
Paulo
Jilo Registered Member
Posts: 690
(8/19/03 8:40 am) Reply
re:
More eloquent folks have already covered off on most of the topics, except for education.
Rather than 'fixing it' or spending more money, how about each and every parent take some farkin responsibility to help their kids learn the three Rs. I've spent a LOT of time in the last year trying to get my stepson up to grade level on reading. It is not that hard or complicated it just takes consistent effort and the will to not use the tv as a babysitter.
J-
Illystra Registered Member
Posts: 2163
(8/19/03 10:20 am) Reply
Re: heh
Paulo, just curious...where do you stand on stem-cell research? Also...
Quote:No, it means you can assume that if he were to have an incident like you have described (broken condom, birth control fluke, etc), in order to live up to his own expectations he would take responsibility for his actions.
One would hope that, and from what I know about Emodius, that's quite possibly true. More often than not, however, you get situations like Everlast describes.
Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom who said he was love
He said, "Don't worry 'bout a thing, baby doll, I'm the man you've been dreamin' of."
But three months later he says he won't date her or return her calls...
And unfortunately, it's not the man that has to deal with the consequences. And until you're prepared to push a 7 to 10 lb. ham out of your penis after holding it in your gut for 9 months, I don't exactly have a high opinion of many men's views on the topic, since unfortunately, there's a lot of them that are all talk and no walk on the subject.
Quote:Might be because we didn't want to look paranoid, or like the world bullies.
And this is different from today...how?
Quote:Hello, their tax rate is almost 60 percent.
60 PERCENT!
It's no wonder they can afford that when they have their hands that deeply in their citizens' pockets. The Belgian system of medicine is nice, but very expensive. No one thinks about that.
You're right, their tax rate is high. And even with that, they have one of the highest standards of living in the world, mainly because with a tax rate that high, the government can afford to pay for damn near everything, leaving citizens with few expenditures.
If their 40% goes as far as our 60-70%, what's the issue?
Registered Member
Posts: 1816
(8/19/03 11:13 am) Reply
Re: heh
Quote:One would hope that, and from what I know about Emodius, that's quite possibly true. More often than not, however, you get situations like Everlast describes.
Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom who said he was love
He said, "Don't worry 'bout a thing, baby doll, I'm the man you've been dreamin' of."
But three months later he says he won't date her or return her calls...
And unfortunately, it's not the man that has to deal with the consequences. And until you're prepared to push a 7 to 10 lb. ham out of your penis after holding it in your gut for 9 months, I don't exactly have a high opinion of many men's views on the topic, since unfortunately, there's a lot of them that are all talk and no walk on the subject.
Hey sister, if you're knocking boots with a guy who has no obligation to you then you have to be willing to accept the fact that your relationship is day to day, and he has no obligation to be there tomorrow. If you can't accept that then don't get involved, think it through, keep those legs closed, and stay out of the situation. Let's cut the innocent, love stricken girl act and be honest with ourselves. Women today are well educated, world wise, self driven individuals. They know when they're in a good situation, they know when they're in a bad situation.
If you cannot accept responsibility for your actions, do not perform the action. That is called being an adult. When you're a child you can blame your stupidity on being a child. When you're an adult you have noone to blame but yourself.
It's not like the results of sex aren't well known. It's not like a pregnant girl can say, "Well shit! I'm pregnant! Now how in the hell did that happen? What? Sex? You get pregnant from having sex?" any more than a smoker can say he's surprised he got lung cancer.
Cause -> effect, live it, love it. In the end it comes down to choosing life or death for your baby, and that is what it is. Abortion ends the future life of the child. How it can be justified as a simple choice and boiled down to the most basic arguments of given rights is beyond me, but that's the society we live in today.
As for stem cell research, under strict rules and guidance I'm all for it. If you can't seperate the abortion procedure from stem cell research then you have problems. Abortion for the sake of ending life is not the same as growing stem cells in a dish in a lab to further scientific understanding and development. It's as different as night and day, and I'd be wary of arguing against that difference if people wish to see stem cell work continue.
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Might be because we didn't want to look paranoid, or like the world bullies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is different from today...how?
Lets face it....we're damned if we do, we're damned if we don't. Period.
Illystra Registered Member
Posts: 2164
(8/19/03 7:42 pm) Reply
Re: heh
Quote:Hey sister, if you're knocking boots with a guy who has no obligation to you then you have to be willing to accept the fact that your relationship is day to day, and he has no obligation to be there tomorrow. If you can't accept that then don't get involved, think it through, keep those legs closed, and stay out of the situation. Let's cut the innocent, love stricken girl act and be honest with ourselves. Women today are well educated, world wise, self driven individuals. They know when they're in a good situation, they know when they're in a bad situation.
Really? You'd be suprised. I was engaged to a guy. We'd been going out for over a year, he had moved in with me to take care of me when I was diagnosed with cancer again...and we're no longer together due to a string of arguments.
I thought this guy was going to be the one that I would spend the rest of my life with. He thought I was the girl he would be spending the rest of his life with. The relationship was as stable as it could possibly get when we began having sex. It was the happiest year+ of my life.
Quote:
Cause -> effect, live it, love it. In the end it comes down to choosing life or death for your baby, and that is what it is. Abortion ends the future life of the child. How it can be justified as a simple choice and boiled down to the most basic arguments of given rights is beyond me, but that's the society we live in today.
As for stem cell research, under strict rules and guidance I'm all for it. If you can't seperate the abortion procedure from stem cell research then you have problems. Abortion for the sake of ending life is not the same as growing stem cells in a dish in a lab to further scientific understanding and development. It's as different as night and day, and I'd be wary of arguing against that difference if people wish to see stem cell work continue.
So when is that clump of cells considered life? Do you consider the morning-after pill a form of abortion? Nice dodge there, Paulo.
Registered Member
Posts: 2923
(8/19/03 9:03 pm) Reply
High standards of living in Belgium.
I wouldn't necessarily say that a professional there has any different standard of living than a professional in the USA, except that they pay more taxes whereas US employers pay for medical care.
Go stand outside the church near the Grand Plaza in Brussels and see how many people there agree with your opinion of the Belgian social system. Actually, don't bother, I'm sure many of them will be more than glad to agree with anything you have to say as long as you cough up a few euro for them to feed their kids that night.
Same problem, different continent. Europe just hides it better, it's the academic thing to do.
OkamiKhn Registered Member
Posts: 11
(8/20/03 12:46 am) Reply
Re: Oh~
I know I don't post often but this one got to me a little bit. I don't agree with the general label of consertive or liberal and from reading some of the reply's here there is no absolute of either side. My opinion on some of the topics that Paulo brought up might be a bit different but then again, I probably come from a different backround than him and others that post here.
Death Penalty - I do support the death penalty and I also agree that the process is too long at times. However, every time I start thinking that it's working I see a story on the news about how a guy that was on death row for 11 years had his sentance overturned by new evidence such as DNA or the real perpitraitor (sp?) confessed. That disturbs me. I think there are still too many holes in the justice system for the final sentance of death to be freely handed down. Just makes me wonder. I agree with what was said about Saudi Arabia. Their laws are far more harsh yet in return, crime is rare. It makes you think.
Abortion - I pretty much fall into that gray area on that one. I'm not a woman, I have no idea what it would be like to do that or even be faced with that option.
Homosexual Rights - I'll just say I agree with what Paulo posted on this one
Immigration - As long as it's done lawfully, fine by me. This country is made up of the largest mix of folks anywhere in the world and for some crazy damn reason, it works.
Big Government - There are some things I can and can't say about this. I can say that I don't agree with an over expanded government just for the sake of creating jobs for more politicians. Let's face it, there is no other job that you need less job expierence for than this one. What are the requirements to be a US Senator? Get elected. You don't have to have had prior job expierence. You don't even have to have had to go to college or even graduate from high school. Even the military requires at least a GED, the House of Representatives doesn't. And what's even worse, they get paid very large ammounts of cash for representing "the people". They only have to serve a 4 or 6 year term and they are literally set for life in the Senate. In the military you have to SERVE for at least 20 years to get a retirement pay of HALF of your normal pay (which is still below the national standard). In the Senate you serve one term and you get paid the same paycheck for life! Fix issues like these and you'll have a good start on fixing Big Government.
Education - It's in a sore state, I agree. What is different from when I went to school and now? It was mentioned that classes and teachers have to be too PC and fluffy now. I agree, go back to the basics. That's only half the problem. The other half is the parents. If dicipline isn't enforced at home how seriously is it going to be taken at school?
Social Programs - Yes there are folks out there who can't help themselves. Yes there are folks out there who take advantage of the system. I was enraged when I saw a MTV (I think it was MTV) spot that was almost glorfying (sp?) a rapper (I think his name was Dirty Ole Bastard) pulling up to the welfare office in his limo to get his welfare check. This is a place where the government has failed the system. The offices that are supposed to police the system are woefully undermanned. It's not apathy, it's lack of manpower. And in some cases, the social programs are the fault of state government and not federal government. The federal government can hand out money but the states set the rules and the budgets for that money.
Long winded I know but like I said, this one bugged me. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything I said that isn't an opinion (hehe, I know, flame board). I am always willing to admit if something that I think is a law really isn't or anything like that.
Quote:I was enraged when I saw a MTV (I think it was MTV) spot that was almost glorfying (sp?) a rapper (I think his name was Dirty Ole Bastard) pulling up to the welfare office in his limo to get his welfare check.
That is quite sad. Basically MTV saying that collecting welfare is the hip, cool thing to do, even if you are a famous rap star arriving to the office in a limo. That is serious failure on the state and/or federal government's part to let people like that exploit the welfare system.
Registered Member
Posts: 1817
(8/20/03 4:38 am) Reply
Re: .............
I'm not dodging anything Illy. If you can't differentiate between abortion as a means of birth control and growing cells in a dish for scientific purposes then you're the one with issues. In the end it's that kind of thinking that will be the end of stem cell research. If you insist on stating that if you're for stem cell research you must be for abortion then you're going to remove half of your supporters.
If you're engaged to a guy he still has no legal obligation to you, I'm sorry. Sure, he's a total @#%$ for walking out or whatever, but let's be honest, if he wanted to take the easy way out (like he did) it was well within his rights, and you had no claim to force him to hang around. The same can be said of those who get pregnant. There are some men (and of course, women) who simply have no sense of duty.
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